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Thank's for that Shirley were you able to find him on the 1901 census with his family?

The maiden name on the birth certs refs will only tie up with the brides fathers name on the marriage cert if the bride had been married before. She would marry in her current name not her maiden name

no not finding him on the 1901 census as he isnt listed in his full name

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about James Hubert Thoebald Charles Butler, Lord
Name: James Hubert Thoebald Charles Butler, Lord
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 28 Jun 1899
Baptism Place: Ulcombe, Kent, England
Father: James Theobald Bagot John Butler, Lord
Mother: Annabella Bzydon Butler
FHL Film Number: 1835795
Reference ID: It 1 Pg20 No 156

so looks like gentry

??
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about James T B J Butler
Name: James T B J Butler
Birth Date: abt 1853
Date of Registration: Jun 1929
Age at Death: 76
Registration district: Bournemouth
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 932


England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Annabella B Butler
Name: Annabella B Butler
Birth Date: abt 1858
Date of Registration: Jun 1943
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Bournemouth
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 930

??
1881 England Census about James T.B.J. Butler
Name: James T.B.J. Butler
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship to Head: Brother in Law
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Old Malton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: The Lodge
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Parson Clerk In Holy Orders Without Cure Of Souls (Clergyman)
Registration district: Malton
Sub-registration district: Malton
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4811
Folio: 74
Page Number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
William H.W. Fitzwilliam 40
Mary G.L.W. Fitzwilliam 34
Marie A.B. Fitzwilliam 2
Isabel E. M. Fitzwilliam
James T.B.J. Butler 28
William H. Calam 29
Melony Lock 29
John Wm. Dawson 20
Frances Warrington 23
Elizabeth Sharpe 37
Margaret Stott 20
Jane Carr 40
Elizabeth Gibson 23
Alice Pavey 24
Elizabeth Priestley 18

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4811; Folio: 74; Page: 16; GSU roll: 1342161.

wow thanks Shirley now my imagination is going haywire!!! I have been wondering if the parents of Ernest and Hubert maybe never married? I have that no marriage and yet the children all registered under the father's name. and another where the children were registered under the mother's name, parents married and next lot of children under father's name, all baptised under father's name!!! also maybe some relative of this family? hence one child given the name Hubert??
are you able to find this Lord James on the 1901 census? I guess Ulcombe is possibly the 'home' in Kent and the reason the son was born in Paddington is they were at their ' abode' in London? many thanks for all this, being in NZ it's a bit harder

no been looking for them on the census only found the 1881 so far

As james was born in Ireland wonder if thats where they married

It could be they traveled a lot so thats why James junior was in boarding school

That family were gentry

do you have ancestry ? if so look at this

1 Tudor Roll of the Blood Royal

interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6557/6557-TDRRLL-0332/333?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin

dont know if it will open for you

thanks for all your work Shirley I have googled the name and found the family on the peerage James Theobald was a rev and the son of john 2nd marquess or Ormonde and he was buried in Kilkenny Ireland! James was the rector at Ulcombe and he had 3 daughters and 2 sons James Hubert being the youngest.
It gave info on these children marriages, children etc.....so don't think any blood connection!! maybe Ernest and Hubert's mother was a maid for the family????
I don't have ancestry, but could you do me a favour? On the public member trees I have found a Hubert john Law on 6 trees I put in b/place Kent, so that comes up but I can't see any other info except he was married Bedfordshie died Wiltshire! , I see 5 of them have some records/sources attached.could you possibly check what records they have? be most greatful it may give me a clue and stange he went out of Kent!
thanks so much for your time

Sorry was my bedtime last night !

Have looked now on ancestry and none of the trees have his parents listed
All say born 15th Dec 1911 Elham Kent married Florence Darlow in 1937 Bedfordshire, died Salisbury in Wiltshire in 1995

Thanks anyway Shirley, course it' was daytime here in NZ! looks like I am going to have to get the birth certificate! have had contact with a couple of people on here with Hubert on their trees, but they don't know the parents either and family aren't that happy to talk about anything! so there could well be some sort of scandal!!

As you say, you need a birth certificate to get any further with this one. However, I've been looking at this family as it looks like the only Law family living in Lyminge in 1911:

William Law
Age in 1911:34
Estimated birth year:abt 1877
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Wye, Kent
Civil Parish:Lyminge
County/Island:Kent
Country:England
Street address:
Broadley's Cottages, Rhodes Minnis, Elham Nr Canterbury
Marital Status:Married
Occupation:Waggoner
Registration district:Elham
Registration District Number:66
Sub-registration district:Elham
ED, institution, or vessel:5
Household schedule number:55
Piece:4657
Household Members:
Name
Age
William Law34
Isabel Law 34
Phoebe Law 8
Isabel Law 7
Walter Law 5
James Law 4
Ida Law1

William Henry Law married Isabel Mary Lincoln in 1899, they had a further child George E Law, reg Dec1911 - death shows dob 17/10/11. No more children to them.

If William was "playing away" he could be the parent of Hubert J (dob 15/12/11) and Ernest A.

Haven't found a death for William Henry so far.

Wow thanks so much for this another prospective father maybe???

just wondering if you found any Butler's living there? The ones I had on the 1901 I found marriages for the girls however on checking Ethel Grace Butler in mar qtr 1907 Elham dist it didn't have any other names with it?? unlike the others that had 2 males and 1 other female. Is there anyway of you being able to check this Ethel and to see who she married? she was born c 1882 in Folkestone.
Many thanks once again

Just found on the 1911 index a family of Butler's living in Lyminge the only female I saw was Mary Anne age 54 maybe this is a family connection? thanks again

The marriage you're looking at - index has been wrongly transcribed on freebmd it should be 2a 1737. Ethel Grace Butler married Albert Edward Wells in Folkestone.


Ethel Grace Butler
Gender:Female
Age:23
Birth Date:1884
Marriage Date:13 Jan 1907
Marriage Place:Folkestone, Kent, England
Father: William Butler
Spouse: Albert Edward Wells
FHL Film Number:1866547
Reference ID:458

They were living in Folkestone in 1911 along with 2 year old daughter Maudie

The 1911 census for Mary Ann Butler age 54 - living in Lyminge:

George Butler
Age in 1911:55
Estimated birth year:abt 1856
Relation to Head:Head
Gender:Male
Birth Place:Goudhurst, Kent
Civil Parish:Lyminge
County/Island:Kent
Country:England
Street address:New Inn Eachrnd Hill, Lyminge S O, Kent
Marital Status:Married
Occupation:Licensed Victualler Fly Grazier
Registration district:Elham
Registration District Number:66
Sub-registration district:Elham
ED, institution, or vessel:4
Household schedule number:178
Piece:4656
Household Members:
NameAge
George Butler 55
Harry Ann Butler 54 (MARY ANN on original)
Herbert Butler 22
Gertrude Nickel 23 (niece)
William Booth 63 (servant)

So they have the local pub. According to image married 36 years, 8 children with 5 still alive. So a possibility, you'd need to find them on previous census to find their other children.

This appears to be the only Butler family in Lyminge 1911, apart from a male inmate at the workhouse

George is in Lyminge, a licenced victullar in 1901, no sign of wife or any daughters. He has sons Ernest 7, Bertie 12 and John 14. with him. No luck with finding them in 1891 so far.

Thanks, well that eliminates all the Butler women I had from Folkestone!! I found this other family in the 1881 as that gives you the whole family together and there was a daughter Ann.
I saw on the 1901 index that Mary Ann wasn't with the family in Lyminge found a marriage for a daughter Ann to William Longhurst, traced then to sheerness and Mary was there with them. It also turns out that Ann died in sep 1901 in Elham dist and a baby died same time........so that eliminates any girls from this other family!!
I did found around 9 marriages from about 1891 to 1911 for Law/Butler, none in Kent, most in the London area. Two from Wiltshire which is where Ernest's brother Hubert ended up with his family and died there.
I have contact with a lady who comes from one of Hubert's sons, but doesn't have any information on Hubert's parents and her Dad isn't very forthcoming on any!!! so could possibly be some sort of scandal???