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Hello

I have recently started to trace my Family tree, and have already hit a brick wall.

I am hoping that someone can help me trace Sarah Bell who I believe is my Grand Mother. Born in 1910 In Northumberland. My Father was Thomas George Reize Arnott born in 1917 in Northumberland Newcastle Upon Tyne with his twin Mona Reize Arnott. The maiden name on the birth certificate just states Arnott.

I believe that Sarah Bell was my Grand Mother, as another family member has an old photo with this name on the back, but unfortunately no other details. I believe that she had other children later ( Doris Ronnie Kathleen and Margaret) under the surname Scott.

I would really appreciate any help, or guidance pointing in the right direction.

Thank you Ann-Marie Butcher nee Arnott.

am lost sorry

Sarah Bell born 1910 whose mum is she ?? she cant be Thomas Arnott mum

Do you have the actual birth cert for Thomas ?? his mums maiden name will show on the GRO record but his mums full name will be on the actual cert

on the face of it his mum was unmarried

Name: Thomas G R Arnott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Arnott
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 105

same page nos is Mona R Arnott

Looks like mother may have been unmarried:

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
Arnott Mona R Arnott Newcastle T. 10b 105

Not sure if relevant??

Name: Henry R A Scott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Arnott
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1924
Registration district: Berwick
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 916

???

Marriages Jun 1947
Arnott Sarah Scott Newcastle T. 1b 335
Scott George Arnott Newcastle T. 1b 335

??

Marriages Sep 1906
Arnott James Newcastle T. 10b 255
Bell Sarah Newcastle T. 10b 255

it wouldnt put the mmn as Arnott though on Thomas and Mona birth certs

1911 England Census about James Arnott
Name: James Arnott
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Cramlington, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: Elswick
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 46 Darnell St N Cle
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Tailor
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Registration District Number: 558
Sub-registration district: Elswick
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Piece: 30612
Household Members:
Name Age
James Arnott 31
Sarah Arnott 27
Doris Arnott 4

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 30612.

married 4 years 1 child born

they had two more children

Births Jun 1912
Arnott Catherine Bell Newcastle T. 10b 134

Births Mar 1914
ARNOTT Maggie Bell Newcastle T 10b 150

possible death

Deaths Sep 1915
Arnott James 36 Newcastle T 10b 110

A possibility is that IF that 1915 death was the husband of Sarah Arnott nee Bell then she may have gone on to have two children after his death.

If she registered them in her (at the time) correct name of Arnott but did not give a father's name then the maiden name of Arnott could have been assumed by the registrar. I know some widows who had illegitimate children named their late husband as the father but perhaps respect for him prevailed?

That middle name of Reize may be a clue .....

The OP though says Sarah Bell b 1910 which is puzzling though

Thinking outside the box here...

Could her name have been Sarah Isabel Arnott ?
Affectionately known as" Sarah Bell" Arnott ?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Sarah Isabel Arnott
Name: Sarah Isabel Arnott
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1908
Registration district: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 889

She appears to be t a child of Robert Arnott and Isabella Heron who married in South Shields 1897

1911 England Census about Sarah Isabel Arnott
Name: Sarah Isabel Arnott
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: South Shields, Durham, England
Civil Parish: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address: 169 Baring Street South Shields
Registration district: South Shields
Registration District Number: 556
Sub-registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 30270
Household Members:
Name Age
Robt Arnott 37
Isabella Arnott 33
Robert Arnott 12
Benjamin Arnott 10
Leonard Arnott 8
Walton Arnott 5
Sarah Isabel Arnott 3 **

That is a very interesting though GlasgowLass and you could well have something there !

She is still VERY young though to be the twins' mother...

Dea x

Yes Dea,
I have realised that this one is far too young after all

Hi Ann-Marie,

Could you give us ALL the info from that birth cert please.

You say the mother's maiden name is Arnott but is there a first name etc?

Is there an address?

Thanks,

Dea x

EDIT - Do you also have your father's marriage cert to see if he named a 'father' on there??

Dea x

Thank you all for your replies and help, something that I'm sure that I am going to need as I have only just started. Already I have made a huge mistake as I wrote that the DOB for Sarah Bell was 1910 ,when is should have read 1901. I am sorry for any time wasted, but having said that you have given me some very significant information.

Dea, you asked if I had details from my Father's birth cert, and his marriage cert. At the moment I don't have them. Would this be the next port of call for me to obtain a copy? Do you apply to the relevant Parish direct?

Thank you all again for your help.

Ann-Marie

Yes you do need to get your dads birth cert .it will give his mums name and the address where he was born which we may be able to pick up on the 1911 census

Can't see though how she is Sarah Bell as the mmn is Armott on the birth record indicating the mum was unmarried .

So the marriage of a sarah bell to arnott in 1906 can't be the right couple if she was born in 1901

How have you got to her if you don't have any certs ?

You can order the certs on line here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

Just follow the instructions and if you get stuck, ask on here for help.

They will each cost £9.25p (other sites charge MUCH more).

You will need to tick to say you have the reference numbers and put those in when you apply.

This would be the detail (as posted above) for the birth cert:

Name: Thomas G R Arnott
Mother's Maiden Surname: Arnott
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne

Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 105


You can find the ref numbers for the marriage on FreeBMD site but if you have problems just post the details on here and we will look it up for you.

Dea Xxx

Hello Ann-Marie, it's just as easy to order certificates online from GRO
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

There's a box to tick if the GRO references are known - they are on the birth records that Shirley and Brummiejan posted further up the page. Certificates cost £9.25

Ann-Marie, Shirley has posted the reference numbers you need to purchase your father's birth cert. This is the site to order all certs from - Costs £9.25 if you tick the box asking if you have the references:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/

This site is the one most of use for looking for BMDs

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

and 3 possible marriages come up - is one of them your father's?

Marriages Jun 1938 (>99%)
Arnott Thomas G Creaser Hull 9d 385 Scan available - click to view

Marriages Mar 1942 (>99%)
Arnott Thomas G Wilson-Smith Bath 5c 1797 Scan available - click to view

Marriages Sep 1945 (>99%)
Arnott Thomas G T Williams Surrey Mid.E. 2a 609

I would get the birth cert first as he may not have named a father on the marriage one.