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you can also just go ahead and order the marriage certificate on line Adriana

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

giving the details of the marriage

I'll put it here for you again for convenience, what patchem posted earlier, with the details spelled out for ordering

Name: George A Ford
Spouse Surname: Raymond
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1939
Registration district: Halstead
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 1279

It should tell you each spouse's full name, age at marriage and occupation, and father's name and occupation, and also their places of residence and the names of the witnesses (who might be brothers or sisters for example)

Wow thank you for all this information you have given me, I am working on finding their marriage or divorce papers so I can find out his parents name as well as his age. I will let you know when I find some more info. <3

directed here from the new thread, posting here to keep info together

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1345818

my condolences too on a very heavy loss Adriana


there doesn't seem to be any birth record for a George Albert Ford born 1908 in Buckinghamshire, and he does seem to be married off to someone else in any case ... but that is very confusing

the 1938 Ford-Ray marrriage appears to have resulted in 4 children 1940-1950, 3 in Hampstead and one elsewhere (wartime)

... okay the Ancestry tree solves that mystery, that George was born Church

Births Mar 1909
CHURCH George Albert Hendon 3a 284

I would agree that it is entirely possible that the year of birth is a year off on the death certificate ... but the 1986 death does seem to be the death of the 'other' George according to that tree information

... unless ... that really is your George and the other person has just plucked a random death from the records that appears to match their George, which has certainly been known to happen on Ancestry trees and frankly I suspect that to be the case here

because I think their George's death was registered as Church

Name: George Albert Church
Birth Date: 6 Dec 1908
Date of Registration: Feb 1995
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Bedford
Inferred County: Bedfordshire
Register Number: A38C
District and Subdistrict: 3091A
Entry Number: 272

I would ask that tree owner what else they know about their George for sure and whether they are certain that is his death


In fact, they seem to be completely confused ...

their George Albert Church with parents Louisa Church and George Ford is in the 1911 census in Willesden, shown as born about 1909 in Kilburn (those are the parents one of the Ancestry trees for the man who married Annie Ray)

the George Albert Church born about 1909 in Bedford is in Bedford with parents Albert and Mary Ann

they have simply created a huge muddle



this is the 1911 census for the George Albert Ford born in late 1909 or early 1910 in St Olave registration district

Name: George Albert Ford
Age in 1911: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, United Kingdom
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 22 Paragon Place, Tower Bridge Road, Bermondsey
Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)

Charles Walter Ford 36 a Finger Rug Weaver born London
Hannah Ford 34 born London
Hannah Ford 11
Charley Wr Ford 5
George Albert Ford 1


you really do need your couple's marriage certificate to know George's father's name and the age George stated for himself at marriage

so you can compare it to an eventual birth certificate (and to the 1911 census for instance) to find his parents and family

this is the only way you will be able to find out more about George

since he was apparently born before 1911, it should be possible to identify him in that census with the info from the marriage certificate, assuming that he married under his birth surname and gave accurate info on his marriage certificate

Photo sent by pm.

Dea x

also could someone send me the link of the tree? Mant Thanks

i do not have an ancestry account, so would someone be able to send me the photograph?

The family tree that Choccy mentioned has a photo for their George Albert Ford, 1908 - 1986, and 2 children, both of whom died before George, as did his wife.

The death certificate will have the name of the informant, who could be a relative.

Think i found George Albert Ford who died in 1986 but cant find out where he would have been buried or if he had any living family ie, daughters or sons.

Thank you so very much for all your help it is so very gratefully received and has restored my faith in humanity <3

This one could have been born in December 1909, and death date was a year out?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
George Albert Ford
Registration Year: 1910 Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: St Olave Bermondsey
Parishes for this Registration District: Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d Page: 192

Free bmd does not throw up a George A Ford nor an Albert G Ford born anywhere from 1907 to 1909. (Apart from a George Albert in Grimsby).

Oddly there is a tree on Ancestry which has this -


Marriages Sep 1938

Ford George A Ray Hampstead 1a 2082
Ray Annie M Ford Hampstead 1a 2082

George Albert Ford born 18th Dec 1908, Hendon, Buckinghamshire - died Oct 1986 in Camden

(only mentioning as Hampstead and Camden referred to by Adriana)

As Detective said, marriage certificate for more information about George Albert Ford.

Added:
Sorry, you have said born 1908 Camden - so birth certificate?

Marriages Mar 1939
Ford George A Raymond Halstead 4a 1279
Raymond Grace A Ford Halsteax 4a 1279

Marriages Jun 1947
Ford Grace A Hamblin Halstead 4a 1524
Hamblin Thomas J Ford Halstead 4a 1524
Hamblin Thomas J Raymond Halstead 4a 1524
Raymond Grace A Hamblin Halstead 4a 1524

Added:
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Grace Alice Hamblin
Birth Date: 16 Apr 1912 Date of Registration: Dec 1982 Age at Death: 70
Registration district: Bury St edmunds Inferred County: Suffolk
Volume: 10 Page: 2433

I know that they got married in 1939 at hampstead. His name was George Albert Ford and they got divorced (i am unaware of the date) but Grace got remarried in 1947 so it must be within that period.

Is Albert his surname? Did they actually marry, or co-habit?
If you have a copy of the MC, his father's name and occupation if known will help you to find them on census. Witnesses may also be from the paternal side

Thank you all ever so much for helping me, much appreciated. I also know that Grace married my fathers dad George Albert born 1908 Camden, however there does not see to be a way to trace him.

Hello Adriana,

That is sad news indeed and you must be in a whirl. We will do our best to help.



(I will let Adriana know how to find her replies). :-)

If you are looking for living relatives, then use the names to search all members trees, and contact anyone who has the names listed.

Also trace them forward on http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl to find their marriages then the births of their children

1901 England Census about James Raymond
Name: James Raymond
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Rose Raymond
Birth Place: Bulmer, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Bulmer
Town: Bulmer
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:Halstead Road, Bulmer

Registration district: Sudbury
Sub-registration district: Bulmer
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1741
Folio: 53
Page Number: 2
Household schedule number: 12

Name Age
James Raymond 39 - Ag Lab
Rose Raymond 28
Oliver Raymond 7
John Raymond 4
Frederick Raymond 2



1911 England Census about James Raymond
Name: James Raymond
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bulmer, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Gestingthorpe
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address: Westbury Hills, Gestingthorpe, C Hedingham, Essex
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Farm Labourer
Registration district: Sudbury
Registration District Number: 205
Sub registration district: Bulmer
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 124
Piece: 10532

Name Age
James Raymond 48
Rose Raymond 38 - married 19 yrs. 10 live births, 1 death)
Amey Weavers 27 (sister)
Oliver James Raymond 17
John Edward Raymond 14
Fredrick Raymond 13
Ernest Raymond 11
Woodford Raymond 9
Winfred Raymond 7
Percy Raymond 5
James Raymond 3
Sidney Raymond 7/12