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thomas john sparkes b1910 parents are thomas and alice he is married to florence kate dungey in 1931 cardiff help needed with any children or deaths for either john or florence im beginning to doubt that i have the wrong marriage for them thank you in advance for any help

Some facts............

1911 Census For England & Wales
32 Oakley Street Cardiff, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales

Thomas Henry Sparkes Head Married Male 31 1880 Labourer at docks Minehead Somerset
Alice Maud Sparkes Wife Married Female 31 1880 - Wivelscombe Somerset
Lilian Maud Sparkes Daughter - Female 5 1906 - Cardiff Glamorgan
Bessie Irene Sparkes Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Cardiff Glamorgan
Thomas John Sparkes Son - Male 1 1910 - Cardiff Glamorgan

NOT born in 1910

SPARKES, THOMAS JOHN WARREN
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 497

Where have you looked???

1939 Register
58 Hewell Street, Cardiff, Cardiff C.B., Glamorganshire, Wales

Thomas (John) Sparkes 16 May 1909 Male General Labourer-Docks Hw Married 298 1
Florence Sparkes 26 Aug 1907 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 298 2
William Dungey 01 Dec 1914 Male General Labourer-Docks Hw Single 298 3
Frances Dungey 23 Aug 1912 Female Manilla Rope Machinist Single 298 4
Beatrice (C L) Powell 07 Apr 1910 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 298 5
The record for this person is officially closed.

Name: Thomas John Sparkes
Death Age: 84
Birth Date: 16 May 1909
Registration Date: Aug 1993
Registration District: South Glamorgan
Inferred County: South Glamorgan
Register Number: A15A
District and Subdistrict: 8901A
Entry Number: 106


Name: Florence Sparkes
Death Age: 97
Birth Date: 26 Aug 1907
Registration Date: Feb 2005
Registration District: Glamorgan
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Register Number: D35A
District and Subdistrict: 891/1D
Entry Number: 125

For our reference only and for accurate YOB:

SPARKES, THOMAS JOHN mmn WARREN
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 497


Thomas John Sparkes
in the Glamorganshire, Wales, Anglican Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1570-1994
Name: Thomas John Sparkes
Baptism Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1909
Baptism Date: 17 Jun 1909
Baptism Place: Grangetown, Glamorganshire, Wales
Father: Thomas Henry Sparkes
Mother: Alice Maud Sparkes


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Sep 1904 (>99%)
Sparkes Thomas Henry Cardiff 11a 532
Warren Alice Maud Cardiff 11a 532


The marriage you mention:

Marriages Mar 1931 (>99%)
Dungey Florence K Sparkes Cardiff 11a 340
Sparkes Thomas J Dungey Cardiff 11a 340

Assuming he married in Cardiff, that's the only feasible one.

Thomas Sparkes
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Thomas Sparkes [Thomas John Sparkes on image]
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 16 May 1909
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 58 Hewell Street
Residence Place: Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Occupation: General Labourer Docks H W??
Line Number: 4
Schedule Number: 298
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: Xgkb
Borough: Cardiff
Registration district: 588/2
Inferred Spouse:
Florence Sparkes
Household Members Age
Thomas Sparkes 30
Florence Sparkes 32
William Denger 25 - single [ Dungey on image, badly written ]
Frances Denger 27 - single [Dungey on image]
Beatrice Powell 29 - married
This record is officially closed.

William, Frances, and Beatrice are Florence's siblings.


Thomas and Florence don't seem to have had any children.

Who are you working back from?

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
DUNGEY, FLORENCE KATE PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 404

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1904 (>99%)
Dungey Clarence Cardiff 11a 609
Payne Drusilla Jane Cardiff 11a 609

1911 Census For England & Wales
58 Hewell Street Cardiff SW, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Clarence C Dungey Head Married Male 27 1884 Labourer dock England
Drusilla J Dungey Wife Married Female 27 1884 - Glamorgan
Lizzie Dungey Daughter - Female 7 1904 School Cardiff
John Dungey Son - Male 5 1906 School Cardiff
Florrie Dungey Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Cardiff
Beatrice Dungey Daughter - Female 1 1910 - Cardiff

Married 7 years. 4 children born and all still living

The children on the 1911 census - https://www.gro.gov.uk

DUNGEY, ELIZABETH JANE PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 420

DUNGEY, CLARENCE JOHN PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1905 S Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 453

DUNGEY, FLORENCE KATE PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 404

DUNGEY, BEATRICE CLARA LOUISA PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1910 J Quarter in OF CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 485


Post 1911 births of further siblings

DUNGEY, FRANCES ANN PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1912 S Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 939

DUNGEY, WILLIAM EDWARD NICHOLAS PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1915 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 932

DUNGEY, DRUSILLA JANE PAYNE
GRO Reference: 1917 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 11A Page 799

thanjk you for the help

https://www.freebmd.org.uk - Deaths easily found

Perhaps Mum died due to birth of young Drusilla, who succumbed shortly afterwards

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1917 (>99%)
Dungey Drusilla J 33 Cardiff 11a 544

Deaths Jun 1917 (>99%)
Dungey Drusilla J 0 Cardiff 11a 420

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Jun 1938 (>99%)
DUNGEY Clarence C 56 Cardiff 11a 342

Deaths Dec 1967 (>99%)
Dungey Clarence J 62 Cardiff 8b 128 - John on 1911 census

1921 census available for all on find My Past - pay to look at transcript or original

A search would give you -

First name(s) Last name Birth year Birth place Parish Registration district County
Clarence Dungey 1883 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England Cardiff Cardiff Glamorganshire

and give hints as to others at the same address -
Clarence, Clarence J, Elizabeth J and 4 others are on the record.

Looking would confirm, but 7 children born, Mum and 1 have definitely died, so the 4 others likely to be the other 4 children.

check for deaths between their births and 1921

would really appriciate also some help with johns mother alice maud warren thanks

1939 register shows Thomas and Florence with her siblings William and Frances both single and sister Beatrice who married Edward A Powell Q1 1935 Cardiff RD

What sort of help with Alice - ancestors, forward of 1911?


Below is a free search result from the 1921 census - if you want full names of all you'll have to pay.
First name(s) Last name Birth year Birth place Parish Registration district County
Alice Maud Sparkes 1880 Somerset, England Cardiff Cardiff Glamorganshire

1921 Census Of England & Wales transcript
Person with no specified gender
Alice Maud, Thomas Henry, Lily Maud and 3 others are on this record

Look at GRO site to see if the 3 un named are further children of Thomas and Alice

From GRO site to give mmn

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WARREN, ALICE MAUD WATERMAN
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in WELLINGTON, SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 332

Checking on freebmd will show that The RD covers Wiveliscombe where Alice is said to have been born (!911 census)

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Jews Road, Wiveliscombe, Wellington, Somerset, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Warren Head Married Male 24 1857 Farm servt (shepherd) Wiveliscombe, Somerset, England
Eliza Warren Wife Married Female 24 1857 - Wiveliscombe, Somerset, England
Thomas Warren Son Single Male 2 1879 - Wiveliscombe, Somerset, England
Alice M Warren Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Wiveliscombe, Somerset, England

Use the free sites to check for parents marriage and sibling births and so on

LOOKING FOR ANCESTORS OF ALICE

Alice Warren
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: Alice Warren
Age in 1901: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Wiveliscombe, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Canton
Search Photos:
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: West Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 168
Piece: 4984
Folio: 90
Page number: 28
Household Members Age Relationship
Annie Searl 50 Head
Elizth Clubb 45 Sister
Alberta Clubb 28 Sister
Helena Clubb 25 Sister
Annie Clubb 21 Sister
Matilda Washer 60 Visitor
Alice Warren 21 Servant


Alice M Warren
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: Alice M Warren
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Warren
Mother's Name: Eliza Warren
Gender: Female
Where born: Somerset, England
Civil parish: Canton
Ecclesiastical parish: Canton
Town: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Cardiff
Sub registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 39a
Neighbors:
Piece: 4397
Folio: 134
Page number: 93
Household Members Age Relationship
John Warren 35 Head
Eliza Warren 35 Wife
Alice M Warren 12 Daughter
Mary A Warren 9 Daughter
Emily Warren 8 Daughter
Bessie Warren 4 Daughter
Minnie Warren 2 Daughter
Thomas Furze 22 Boarder
David Barson 21 Boarder
John Waterman 20 Boarder


Greyghost has given you the 1881 census.


Alice's parents' marriage:

Marriages Jun 1878 (>99%)
WARREN John Wellington, Som. 5c 491
WATERMAN Eliza Wellington, Som. 5c 491

Caza has at least one other thread on members of the Sparkes family. Am on my IPad and can’t copy the links.

Caza - have you made use of the free sites: www.freebmd.org.uk, www .freecen.org.uk and www.freereg.org.uk ? They are very useful if you don’t have access to the major sites.

You can also use the GRO for free to find mothers maiden names. I’m surprised you haven’t been told all this before.

Alice's father John in 1871:

John Warren
in the 1871 England Census
Name: John Warren
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: 1857
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Wiveliscombe Somerset England
Civil parish: Wiveliscombe
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Wellington
Sub-registration district: Wiveliscombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 75
Piece: 2359
Folio: 13
Page number: 18
Household Members Age Relationship
William Warren 44 Head
Mary Warren 46 Wife
John Warren 14 Son
Thomas Warren 10 Son
William Warren 8 Son
Eliza Warren 6 Daughter
James Warren 2 Son


and 1861:

John Warren
in the 1861 England Census
Name: John Warren
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Warren
Mother's Name: Mary A Warren
Gender: Male
Where born: Wiveliscombe, Somerset, England
Civil parish: Wiveliscombe
Ecclesiastical parish: Dunster
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Registration district: Wellington
Sub-registration district: Wiveliscombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 120
Piece: 1608
Folio: 15
Page number: 24
Household Members Age Relationship
William Warren 31 Head
Mary A Warren 34 Wife
Mary A Warren 6 Daughter
John Warren 4 Son
Sarah J Warren 2 Daughter
Tom Warren 1 Son


WARREN, TOM mmn WALDRON
GRO Reference: 1860 M Quarter in WELLINGTON-SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 420

WARREN, SARAH JANE mmn WALDRON
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in WELLINGTON - SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 393

WARREN, MARY ANN mmn WALDRON
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in WELLINGTON-SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 411

: WARREN, WILLIAM mmn WALDRON
GRO Reference: 1862 J Quarter in WELLINGTON-SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 406

WARREN, ELIZA mmn WALDRON
GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter in WELLINGTON SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 436

WARREN, ELIZABETH mmn WALDRON [ DIED 1866 ]
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in WELLINGTON - SOMERSET AND DEVIN Volume 05C Page 416

WARREN, JAMES mmn WALDRON
GRO Reference: 1868 S Quarter in WELLINGTON-SOMERSET AND DEVON Volume 05C Page 350


Can't see John's birth so far.

The thread referred to???.........not directly connected with this one

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1392827