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UPDATE

Apologies for the delay I have only recently got around to ordering the birth record.I decide to order the Bullock certificate from Staffordshire County Council and wish I hadn't bothered. They wanted an exact date and place of birth, neither which were known. I told them I only knew that the birth had been in the first quarter of 1856. They suggested 1st March and that a 10 year search would be made either side of that date. I gave them Fanny Bullock as the mother's name. Almost two weeks later I got a refund. I ordered the Upton birth last week from GRO and got it back today.

Ann Upton born 7th December 1855 Stretton. No father listed, mother Fanny Bullock, now the wife of John Upton. Birth registered on 11th January 1856.

Thanks for all your input. Knowing my luck she'll probably turn out not to be connected to me after all.

Chris

Thank you so much LondonBelle.

This has been very confusing. Even Edwin was sometimes Edward but at least occupation stayed the same.

So not only did Ann Upton revert to her mum's maiden name Bullock but so did Harriet, from Peach to Thorpe.

Makes me wonder why.

Chris

Harriet, Fanny's mother, was baptised as 'Peach'

First name(s) Harriott
Country England
Last name Peach
Archive reference D4219/1/5
Baptism year 1817
Register type Baptism
Baptism date 02 Mar 1817
Page 119
Father's first name(s) Francis
Record set Staffordshire Baptisms
Mother's first name(s) Anne
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Denomination Anglican
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Place Burton upon Trent, St Modwen
Collections from England, Great Britain
County Staffordshire

But married as Thorpe

First name(s) Harriet
County Staffordshire
Last name Thorpe
Country England
Residence Burton upon Trent
Archive reference D4219/1/13
Year 1834
Register type Marriage
Date 17 Nov 1834
Page 355
Spouse's first name(s) Edwin
Record set Staffordshire Marriages
Spouse's last name Bullock
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Spouse's residence Burton upon Trent
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Denomination Anglican
Collections from England, Great Britain
Place Burton upon Trent, St Modwen

Just found it.

Francis Peach married Ann Thorp 26th September 1810 St Peter's church, Derby.

Definitely back to Thorpe/Peach LondonBelle.


Chris

Her dad was Francis Peach, not found his marriage yet.

Chris

Looks like we are back to the Thorpe/Peach maiden name again!

For Ref 1851 Census

Name: Fanny Bullock
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Stretton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Burton upon Trent
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Burton upon Trent
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration District: Burton Upon Trent
Sub-registration District: Burton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 143
Piece: 2012
Folio: 68
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
William Dunn 36
Eliza Dunn 33
Luke Dunn 6
Thomas Dunn 4
Mary Ann Dunn 1
William Dunn 4 Mo
Fanny Bullock 15

One other thing confuses me.

In the 1851 census Fanny Bullock is with William Dunn and his wife Eliza and their children. William Dunn and Eliza Peach married in 1842.

If Fanny Bullock was their niece wouldn't her surname be either Dunn or Eliza's maiden name have been Bullock?

Chris

Gwyn in Kent yes I agree it does look like the are the same Ann. It was a great spot by LondonBelle.

It may turn out that I am not connected to this Ann but I feel that I have to get the birth certificate to find out for certain if Fanny was her mother.

Chris

With regard to the names on a census. Doesn’t it depend on how the family regard the child, how the inmumerator asked the question and how well the recoded their notes.

I know of a family with many children, all with several Christian names - the poor inmumerator got so confused that the very young house servant was recorded as one of the children and several of the children were ahead of their time as they seem to have changed sex

It keeps the old grey matter working, Gwyn ;-)

Oh those name changes for illegitimate births !
I think a lot of the documentation information was about 'saving face' at times.

I have someone born C.1882, who I couldn't find in birth records.
She was shown as a daughter in 1891 census, but I knew the man and wife had not married until 1885.
Eventually, with help on these boards and looking for all records of her name, (Florence, born in the correct registration district ) I bought her birth certificate registered in her mother's maiden name. (Not the person seeming to be her mother in 1891 census)
Interestingly, because they were not married, her father was not named in the 'father' column, but he in fact registered the birth and was noted by name and as the child's father.
In 1891 Florence has his surname.

I bought her marriage certificate , as shown on birth certificate ie. mother's maiden name ...and it said father unknown... She lived with him him and his wife in 1891 census :-S :-S
.....don't know what they were trying to hide, because in a small village, I'm sure everyone knew the facts anyway.

Chrissie
It certainly looks like the 2 Anns are one and the same person.

It might possibly be that John Upton is not Ann's father but that he 'adopted' her.
Fanny and John Upton didn't marry until 31 Dec 1855, so Ann Bullock/Upton could have been born in the last Qtr of 1855.

I agree that if Ann Bullock and Ann Upton are the same person why didn't she marry in the name of Upton as no one else would be any the wiser.....only God. Perhaps that is it that in the eyes of God she was Ann Bullock, the Victorians could be very strange when it came to religion:-)

Wow you have been busy.

I've been out so only had my phone and didn't go through the who thread, I just responded to your comment at 11.44 and I'd only seen the first half of your update.

I think you may be right. However I'm still not sure why there is no father listed on Ann's marriage or why, if John Upton and her mum married, her surname changed to Bullock.

I need to check John and Fanny through the census records.

Thank you so much for what you've found.

Chris

As the Vol and Page number are the same for both the Ann Bullock and Ann Upton entries the chances are they are the same person. However, to confirm this you would need to get a copy of the Birth Certificate.

Thanks LondonBelle.

The birth that I think is my Ann is the same year and Q but surname Bullock. MMN isn't shown. Ann Upton was more than likely the daughter of John Upton and Fanny Bullock. Fanny's dad was Edward Bullock.

Chris

There is a Birth Registration for an Ann Upton in the first Qtr of 1856. As we know, births that happened in the last quarter of the previous year are often registered in the first Qtr of the following year. So I wonder when this Ann was actually born?

UPTON, ANN MMN BULLOCK
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT UNION Volume 06B Page 272

On FreeBMD there is also this Birth, note same Vol & Page
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1856
Bullock Ann Burton upon Trent 6b 272

Now interestingly Fanny Bullock & John Upton married on 31 Dec 1855. On the Image for John it states under Father ' Ann Upton, Single Woman'.

Back
Fanny Bullock in 1855
Staffordshire Marriages
Burton upon Trent, St Modwen, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Fanny
Last name Bullock
Birth year 1834
Age 21
Residence Stretton
Year 1855
Date 31 Dec 1855
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Upton
Spouse's birth year 1835
Spouse's age 20
Spouse's residence Stretton
Father's first name(s) Edward
Father's last name Bullock
Denomination Anglican
Place Burton upon Trent, St Modwen
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D4219/1/16
Register type Marriage
Page 4
Record set Staffordshire Marriages

This is Fanny in the 1841 Census, you'll note there's an Edwin/ Edward Senior and Junior, perhaps one is the other Witness from Ann & Thomas's marriage in 1876?

Detail Source
Name: Fanny Bullock
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Burton Upon Trent
Hundred: North Offlow
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Burton upon Trent
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 975
Book: 12
Folio: 6
Page number: 7
Household Members (Name) Age
Edw Bullock Senr
25
Hart Bullock
25
Fanny Bullock 6
Emma Bullock
3
Edw Bullock Junr
1

In the 1871 Census Ann again appears as Ann Upton a Servant. You'll note that a Thomas Bull is also a Servant, could this be Ann's future husband?

Name: Ann Upton
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Burton-Upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Rolleston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Tutbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 117
Piece: 2897
Folio: 41
Page number: 22
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Ward
36 Head
Lucy H Ward
33 Wife
Kate Ward
7 Daughter
William Ward
6 Son
Edith Ward
4 Daughter
Thomas Ward
2 Son
John Ward
8/12 Son
Hannah Upton
19 Servant
>>>Ann Upton 15 Servant
>>>Thomas Bull 16 Servant