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Darren John
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5 May 2024 07:40 |
Right so my wife is a Dunbar and she has her tree up but she's hit wall with her gg-grandfather her Dad's name is David Francis Dunbar his Dad's name is Charles Dunbar his father was David Dunbar who was born in 1857 in new York then moved to Chester, Cheshire his father who she's looking for is David marion Dunbar who we think was born in 1807 who married Harriet ruffle Dunbar they moved or emigrated to new York in 1846 , David marion Dunbar was a first officer on the famous clipper ship the driver which went down at sea in 1857..
That's all the information we have she can't seem to find his parents or a birth certificate to clarify his DOB.
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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5 May 2024 08:06 |
You say moved or emigrated to New York. . From where ?
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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5 May 2024 08:07 |
Any connection?
First name(s) David M Attestation corps 4th Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlrs Regiment Last name Dunbar Document type Attestation Birth year 1856 Archive reference WO 96 Birth parish St Marys Series Wo 96 - Militia Service Records 1806-1915 Birth town Chester Box 1180 Birth county Cheshire Box record number 350 Birth country England Archive The National Archives Service number 1012 Country England Regiment Argyll And Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise's) - 91st & 93rd Foot Record set British Army Service Records Year 1886 Category Military, armed forces & conflict Attestation date 05 Jul 1886 Subcategory Regimental & Service Records Attestation age years 30 Collections from Great Britain, England Attestation service number 1012
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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5 May 2024 08:16 |
So presume you got his fathers name from the marriage cert
David Dunbar in 1901 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census 11, Seaville Street, Chester, Cheshire, England View original record Add to tree Print More actions Household members (8 people) Copy to clipboard First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place David Dunbar Head Married Male 44 1857 General labourer United States Martha Dunbar Wife Married Female 41 1860 - Cheshire, England Elizabeth Dunbar Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Cheshire, England Edna E Dunbar Daughter - Female 10 1891 - Cheshire, England Dorothy M Dunbar Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Cheshire, England David F Dunbar Son - Male 5 1896 - Cheshire, England Charles F Dunbar Son - Male 3 1898 - Cheshire, England Rose M Dunbar Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Cheshire, England
Marriages Sep 1878 DUNBAR David Chester 8a 549 FAIRBROTHER Martha Chester 8a 549
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 08:55 |
1807 is far too early for birth certs. First issued in England/Wales in July1837, and in Scotland in 1855
Try Scotland’s People for a possible baptism record (one assumes the origins are in Scotland)
Where did you find the migration record?
And the name of his wife?
Have you found their marriage?
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 08:56 |
GOOGLE his name and find a link to info on a tree on familysearch, which you may need to verify
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 09:04 |
The Driver was lost at sea in February 1856…………
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 09:33 |
The military record posted above is for a single man, born in Chester, and living in Lincoln
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Jink20
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5 May 2024 11:16 |
From the Ships List website---- just for info as the Driver was mentioned
"Jun 23, 1856
The clipper ship Driver sailed from Liverpool on the 12th February last, with a crew of 22 men and 6 officers, together with 344 passengers, since which time she has not been heard of, and her owners give her up as lost. The Driver was a fine clipper, two years old, of 1,594 tons. She had on board a Liverpool cargo of dry goods and salt, and was fully insured. Daniel Ogden was the owner of the vessel, and Tapscott & Co., the parties to whom the cargo and passengers were consigned.
The following is a list of the officers of the Driver. The crew was shipped in Liverpool, and the owners have not as yet received their names.
Officers Nicholas Hobberton Master D.M. Dunbar First Officer ********************************* William Mooney Second Officer John Duffy Third Officer Eugene Lambert Steward William George Cook "
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 12:21 |
name: David Marion Dunbar age: 43 years date of death: 00/02/1856 [dd/mm/yyyy] date of birth: 1812 type: crew rank: First Officer regiment: US Merchant Marine wreck: SV Driver David Ogden & Co. (Red Cross Line) cause lost: missing remarks: country: United Kingdom entered by: Jan Lettens entered: 19/11/2018 last update: Quigley Martin last update: 08/03/2024 Read more at wrecksite: https://wrecksite.eu/peopleView.aspx?286413
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 12:31 |
New York directories have an address for a David M Dunbar, Mariner, as 144 Ninth - between 1846 and 1852
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 12:46 |
Name David Dunbar Gender Male Marital Status Single Marriage Date 2 Sep 1878 Marriage Place St Mary, Chester, Cheshire, England Father David Dunbar Spouse Martha Fairbrother FHL Film Number 2045845 Reference ID item 3 p 185
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 13:33 |
David, born New York, appears to be in a GR member’s tree. Try making contact
Charles Frederick born Chester is in two trees
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ArgyllGran
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5 May 2024 14:33 |
David Marion Dunbar is in 38 trees on Ancestry.
The trees all have him as born 1857 or 1856 in NY - but none of the supporting records give a middle name for him.
His father is said to be David Marion Dunbar, DOB unknown, and his mother Harriet Ruffell (note spelling) .
However, the trees have the wrong Harriet Ruffell. (How do they know David's mother was Harriet Ruffell? )
According to the trees, Harriet was born and brought up in Chester, and born c1830. One tree (possibly more) suggests that David 1857 may have been born in NY because Harriet may have had to go there in connection with his father's death, which happened while she was pregnant with young David.
However, that would imply that she married David Marion Dunbar in Cheshire - but there's no record of that.
The trees say that her parents were Benjamin Ruffell and Ann Jarvis - but then go on to show her in 1841 and 1851 censuses, born c 1836, with parents WILLIAM and Ann, in Great Boughton.
William and Ann's daughter is NOT the right one, as she married William Criddle in 1859 and is in later censuses as Criddle.
The only baptism of a Harriet Ruffell in Cheshire with father Benjamin was in 1820 , in an unnamed parish.
Harriet Ruffell England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000 Name Harriet Ruffell Christening Date 26 Apr 1820 Christening Place Of This Parish Father's Name Benjamin Ruffell Mother's Name Ann Ruffell Event Type Other Image Number 574
I don't know what proof they have of David Marion Dunbar's wife's age or father's name, nor why they assume she was born in England.
A woman named Harriet Dunbar certainly died in Great Boughton in 1859 - but aged 29, so not either of the Harriets above.
The trees also say that David's DOB was 27 July 1856 - but give no proof. (Maybe that's from his military record, which gives his age as 58 year 151 days, on 6 Oct 1914. I haven't done the arithmetic.)
Do you have any documentary proof that David 1857/1856's mother was named Harriet Ruffell/Ruffle ? or have you assumed that other people's trees are correct?
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ArgyllGran
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5 May 2024 14:50 |
Erika mentioned that David M Dunbar was listed in New York 1846-52.
He was still listed there in 1857 - but maybe the list was compiled the year before ??:
David M Dunbar in the U.S., City Directories, 1822-1995 Name David M Dunbar Residence Year 1857 Street Address 179 Av B Residence Place New York, New York, USA Occupation Seaman Publication Title New York, New York, City Directory, 1857
EDIT: He's still listed in 1858 - so presumably not the right man.
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ArgyllGran
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5 May 2024 14:56 |
This man was British, and apparently born approx. 1816/1817.
". . he . . says that he has arrived at the age of 21 years, and that at the time he arrived in the United States, he had not attained his eighteenth year, and that for the continued term of five years last past, including three years of his minority, he has resided within the same, and for one year within the State of New York. . . . "
David M Dunbar in the New York, U.S., State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1794-1943 Name David M Dunbar Record Type Naturalization Naturalization Date 7 Nov 1838
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Jink20
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5 May 2024 15:19 |
1. David M Dunbar Migration • New York, County Naturalization Records, 1791-1980
Name David M Dunbar Event Type Naturalization Event Date 1838 Event Place New York, United States Certificate Number 27 Volume Naturalization index no date Duffy, K-Egan, M _____________________________________________________________________________________ 2. New York Births and Christenings, 1640-1962
Name Elizabeth Burnett Dunbar Birth Date 24 Jun 1839 Father's Name David M. Dunbar **** Father's Sex Male Mother's Name Mary Ann **** Mother's Sex Female Event Type Christening Event Date 19 Sep 1839 Event Place New York City, New York County, New York, United States
___________________________________________________________________________________
3. And just to confuse the matter
Census • New York State Census, 1855 Place: E.D. 9, Ward 11, New York City, New York, New York, United States
Name David Dunbars (listed as born Scotland, Mariner) Sex Male Age 48 years Birth Date 1807 Relationship to Head of Household Head
Spouses and Children
Harriet Dunbars (born England) Wife F 35
Ellen Dunbars Daughter F 11
Event Type Census Event Date 1855 Event Place New York City, New York, United States Line Number 5
__________________________________________________________________________________
But there is the following marriage with similar Mother's first names as entry 2 above
Name Mary Ann Spears Gender Female Event Type Marriage Event Date 29 Jan 1832 Parish Liverpool, St Michael, Lancashire, England Spouse David Dunbar ********************
EDIT **** Spouse's occupation Mariner ***** ________________________________________________________________________________
So I'm going to ask a) Is David listed in 1855 Census ,New York as a Mariner (born Scotland) the same David M sought after? b) Married twice? Once to Mary Ann and then Harriett c) Two different David's d) Go sit in a corner and be quiet, as I've lost the plot
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 15:34 |
The tree to which I made reference at 08:56 has Mary Ann Spears as the wife of the man who died in Feb 1856, aged 43, but as I said, it needs to be verified, as does all online info.
There is an 1850 census record attached…………..
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Jink20
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5 May 2024 15:38 |
Census 1850 New York City, New York County, New York, United States Enumerator made an error in the 1855 Census re birthplaces??
Name David (illegible) M Dunbar Sex Male Age 42 years Birth Year (Estimated) 1808 Birthplace England
Mary Ann Dunbar F 37 years Scotland
Elizth Dunbar F 10 years New York
Ellen Dunbar F 5 years New York
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ErikaH
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5 May 2024 15:44 |
Fuller details from FMP on the marriage above
He is a Bachelor, and a Mariner and there is no record of a second forename The marriage was By Licence on 29th Feb1832 at St Michael’s Church, Upper Pitt Street, Liverpool Witnesses: John Greggs and John McCulloch
The bride’s surname looks more like Shears on the image……..
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