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Hi Mhairi You know the more I look at this Janet the less likely she seems as a fit for our Janet. None of it makes sense. The Janet Morrison that you and Janice found Campsie 1836 at least fitted the facts even if we couldn't find her marriage and the birth of John Jnr. IF Janice was right and John Snr married Jane Whaitson/Wadeson some time after the 1951 census, and IF John and Jane subsequently broke up and he got together with Janet pre 1861 census, and IF he never managed to divorce Jane. I would make sense that he a Janet could have lived together as man and wife. Who, in England, was going to question a marriage and birth that took place in Scotland. As far as I know you didn't have to produce a marriage certificate to register a birth in England. I think, on balance that I am, willing to accept the Birkett side of Alan's tree (provided that I can prove it) but I really do think that our Campsie Janet Morrison is the most likely. And anyway if the family you found in 1861 is Janet's there is the problem of her being in two different places at once. And another thing, if Janet was born in Old Kirkpatrick why would she say Campsie. Are the two places near one another? I know when I tell people that I was born in Jarrow, if they haven't heard of Jarrow I just say 'near Newcastle', and they go away with the impression that I'm from Newcastle, could that be the case here? I am going to add all the stuff that Alan added about his great grandfather EDWARD BIRKETT, because I know that that is correct, I have my own evidence to support it but I reserving jugdement on the rest Anyway, for now, the hunt goes on Jan:)

What we really need, is a marriage cert! Think i've found the same Morrison family in the 1861 though what it shows kinda messes things up again Name: Andrew Morrison Age: 49 Estimated birth year: abt 1812 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Landican County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Wirral Sub-registration district: Woodchurch ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 4 Household Members: Name Age Robert Maxton 31 - Servant Andrew Morrison 49 - Head (famer of 100 acres) Andrew Morrison 22 - Son James Morrison 24 - Son Janet Morrison 28 - Daughter (widowed) Margaret Morrison 50 - Wife Bridget Toole 23 - Servant Mhairi

1851 Name: Andrew Morrison Age: 47 Estimated birth year: abt 1804 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Margaret Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil parish: West Derby County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: West Derby ED, institution, or vessel: 1k Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 105 Household Members: Name Age Andrew Morrison 47 - Head Andrew Morrison 11 - Son - Liverpool Eliza Morrison 15 - Daughter - Liverpool James Morrison 13 - Son - Liverpool Janet Morrison 19 - Daughter - Scotland Margaret Morrison 45 - Wife - Scotland Margaret Morrison 21 - Daughter - Scotland

Hi Mhairi (again) Just went back and re-read your reply (I'm useless at remembering what's been said) If the Janet that Alan has is THE Janet then I will also be really sad to see her go. Alan hasn't found Janet's birth certificate . He has her birth as being about 1838, where as every census we have found lists her as being c.1836. I know census's are known for transcription errors etc, but this year of birth has never changed. The only thing that we have that is at variance with the census's is her death cert in 1905, which lists her age as 66, the same age as she lists 4 years earlier in the 1901 census. In favour of Alan's version of events is the fact that he has 20 years worth of diary's from his grandfather. This chap knew the Scottish family as far as I can remember of what Alan said. HOWEVER Alan also says that his grandfather called Janet, 'MAWSON' .............Makes you think really, doesn't it I haven't lost the Campsie connection with my family though. I been researching other parts of the tree whilst I was waiting for certificates and information on the Morrison/Morson thing and it turns out that just about every branch spends time in Campsie. I have to go for now. I had visitors turn up half an hour ago and they will need to be entertained for a little while at least (they've very kindly made me a cup of coffee to tempt me away from the computer). I'm glad you approve of me not taking things at face value, I thought people would think I was being a bit fussy, but I feel that I have been really careful about collecting and verifiying evidence so far and I really don't want to spoil all the hard work that so many of us have put into this by finishing it off with unsubstantiated research. I will add some of the things that Alan sent, because he has supporting evidence (birth cert etc of his great grandfather Edward Birkett etc) Take care Jan x

ELIZABETH MORRISON - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 06 DEC 1835 Oldham Street Presbyterian, Liverpool, Lancashire, England ANDREW AGNEW MORRISON - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 03 NOV 1839 Oldham Street Presbyterian, Liverpool, Lancashire, England JANE AGNESS MORRISON - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 12 DEC 1841 Oldham Street Presbyterian, Liverpool, Lancashire, England 1841 census Andrew Morrow abt 1806 Scotland Liverpool Lancashire Andrew Morrow abt 1840 Lancashire, England Liverpool Lancashire Elizabeth Morrow abt 1836 Lancashire, England Liverpool Lancashire James Drew Morrow abt 1838 Lancashire, England Liverpool Lancashire Janet Morrow abt 1832 Scotland Liverpool Lancashire Margret Morrow abt 1811 Scotland Liverpool Lancashire Margret Morrow abt 1830 Scotland Liverpool Lancashire So by the looks of it Andrew and Margaret moved down to Liverpool after 1834 and before the end of the year in 1835 Mhairi

Hi Mhairi Nice to see you on the boards again :) I have some dates etc (Information via Alan) Janet Morrison was born in OLD KILPATRICK, daughter of Andrew Morrison and Margaret Drew (this is a bit strange because throughout the census's Janet puts her birth place as Scotland except in one where she puts Camsee as place of birth) ANDREW MORRISON born abt 4. Mar 1804 in Old Kipatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland MARGARET DREW Born: abt 8 Mar 1804 in New Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland Marriage: 30 Nov 1827 in Old Kilpatrick, Dunbarton Children: MARGARET 6 Sept 1834 in Middle Par, Greenock, Renfrewshire. ELIZA 16 Nov 1835 in Liverpool, West Derby, Lancashire JANET abt 1838 in Old Kilpatrick JAMES abt 1838 in Liverpool, West Derby Lancs ANDREW AGNEW 6 Oct 1839 in Liverpool I'm off to filter through some more of the things that Alan sent, I'll add stuff as I come across it. Bye for now Jan x

Hey Jan What a great find and i think its great that your going to take the time and effort to check all the information given to you. There are a few out there that would just take the info as is and not bother. So well done. Will wait to pass judgement on the info as i dont wont to throw a spanner in the works at the moment till you have dates/places ect. Waiting semi patiently for the next update Mhairi

But when you do have the info, do you think this could be the family in the 1841 English census? Name: Janet Morrow Age: 9 Estimated birth year: abt 1832 Household: View other family members Gender: Female Where born: Scotland Civil parish: Liverpool Hundred: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Source information: HO107/560/11 Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: Mount Pleasant ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Folio: 22 Page: 36 (click to see others on page) Line number: 7 GSU Number: 306942 Mhairi If Janet Morson from Campsie is not your Janet, then where does she go after 1861? I've become rather attached to her in the time we have been searching...may just have to look into her whereabouts. Just to satisfy my own curiosity

Hi everyone. I thought that you might like to hear the latest. I still haven't had any of the certificates I ordered back BUT.............. I have just received a letter from Alan Birkett, he is also a gg grandchild of Janet and John Birkett (so that's 3 of us now, myself from Elizabeth, Moira's husband Charlie from Dorothy Ann and Alan from Edward). Anyway he has sent me loads of stuff (including a letter from John Birkett 1860 to his brother and sister, and a photograph of Edward Birkett at his son's wedding). Alan has Janet MORRISON's parents as ANDREW MORRISON (his parents are James Morrison and Margaret Graham, daughter of James Graham and Margaret Orr) and MARGARET DREW (her parents are James Drew and Jean Watson). Alan also has JOHN BIRKETT's parents as ROBERT BIRKETT (son of Joseph Birkett and Dorothy Moow) and MARY MOSS JOSEPH BIRKETT's parents are JOHN BIRKETT and ELIZABETH JEPSON (daughter of Thomas Jepson and A. Hathernthwait, grand daughter of Thomas Jepson, great grand daughter of Edmond Jepson) JOHN BIRKETT parents are JOHN BIRKETT (son of John Birkett and Margaret Hodgson who is the daughter of Bryan Hodgson) and MARY MILLER (daughter of John Miller). JOHN BIRKETT's father is HENRY BIRKETT and his grandfather is HENRICI BIRKETT. I think that's all. At the moment I haven't got dates for all of them, and even when I get dates I'll still have to check them out and make sure it's all present and correct. I will update you all when I know something for sure. Take care Thanks you all once again for your fantastic help Jan xx

Hi Jan A break through on John Birkett Senior at last, that is Brilliant, so now you can get his birth certificate nd track him on census hopefully. See where he went and why? Love Janice xx

Hi Everyone. I have some news!! Sadly not on Janet, I'm still waiting for the copies of Janet's childrens birth certs from the GRO, the postman thinks I'm mad as I keep way laying him, but he'll recover! I asked Danuella for a look up in BIVRI, she couldn't find a birth for JOHN BIRKETT Jnr or a marriage for JONH BIRKETT to JANET MORSON/MORRISON. BUT........................she did find JOHN BIRKETT Snr birth and that of his siblings..............How good is that? He was JOHN BIRKETT born 28th April 1826 Lancaster, Lancashire. Christened 11th May 1826 Father ...EDWARD BIRKETT Mother ...BETTY Brother ...WILLIAM born 1st March 1818 Lancaster. Christened 22th March 1818 Sister...ELIZABETH born 16th February 1829 Lancaster. Christened 13th March 1829. Brilliant news, isn't it. I'm over the moon! I'm also off to order his birth certificate. Thank you all for all the wonderful help you have each given me. Without you I'd be sitting here wondering who my grandmother was! I will keep you up-dated love Jan x

Damn, I've just spent half an hour writing an update, and thank you notes to you all, pressed the wrong button and LOST IT ALL. :( I can't remember what I said but basically it was something on the lines of I've printed out a list of all JOHN MORRISON births in Scotland in 1859/1860, I think it's almost 100. I also have a print out of all JANET MORSON/MORRISON births during the relevent period and I am systematically going through them one by one untill I am hopefully (if I haven't gone bankrupt, blind or plain bloody mad with it all) left with the right Janet whatever her name is. So I'd like to say thank you JANICE for the e-mails tonight, which have helped to cross off a few from the list. Thank you MOIRA for p.m ing me. I look forward to seeing them, and BE NICE TO LIONEL !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Smile at him when he puts the bins out, (get the family to smile at him, if you think that will help, babies in prams are always good for softening the hardest hearts). Just don't invite him in for coffee, unless you really have too. It's not worth putting up with a dodgy neighbour just to find a dead relly. MHAIRI You're not supposed to giggle. You're supposed to feel deepest sympathy for my suffering - just as I feel deepest sympathy for your Alexander McGregor - Christian Morrison thing ;) I think that a trip to Campsie has to be on the cards sometime, after all whether they were barefoot serfs or well shod lairds that's where my family came from. Even the Irish turn out to be Scottish - How cool is that Look after yourselves Jan xx

Hi Jan By now you will have received the information I sent and hope this helps you discount some of the Janet Morrison's you were considering? The marriage certificate of Janet Morson to James Reid, which shows under Morson/Reid & Morrison/Reid shows that even the people themselves back then were as confused as us. The Father of Janet Morson signs as William Morson or Morrison, so he too must have been uncertain about his surname. Spelling was not a speciality back then, and even today we still find errors, even when we know how to spell our names, they still get mistranscribed. Janice

Hi Jan & Mhairi Just to say Jan that I know that you have had a hard slog checking this Janet Morrison? Also that it is costing you a fortune. To update Jan found Janet Morrison, Parents John Morrison & Janet Campbell. Siblings William 24/7/1830 William 22/10/1831 Agness 5/9/1834 Janet 11/9/1836 Jean 20/9/1838 John 20/12/1840 Traced them 1841 & 1851 then went to bed after 100 credits. Just tracked them down on 1861 census with Janet still at home. Sending Image to you Jan. Another issue I raised with Jan is the marriage of Janet Morson to James Reid. This marriage also comes up Janet Morrison to James Reid? When I double checked my image Janet signs in as Janet Morson, but her Father signs in as Morrison? Different Parents to the Janet Morson found originally but none-the-less confusing and another Red Herring? Still going with MORSON. Janice xx

Jan Lol I have to admit to having a bit of a giggle :) So when will you be coming North of the border and actually visiting Campsie? Also had another laugh. After a bit of detective work i discovered that i had been looking into the wrong family for one of my lines...they where causing me hassle anyway so dont mind ditching them. Anywho got my chaps grandfathers death cert. Checked the wife's name, correct then checked age ect all great then had a look at the parents names...Alexander McGregor and Christian...Morrison :) Instantly made me think of you and this whole Morson/Morrison doo da. Thanks for your emails :) I'm putting my Irish research on hold at the moment till i can (or sks can find it for me). He's meant to be born about 1880 according to census and marriage details but noones found a birth ref yet...so annoying. So any further information on this Janet Morrison you where tracking through the census? Take care Mhairi

I think that I might have found Janet MORRISON. After trawling through loads of stuff I finally came up with only 2 that it could possibly be. But the firm favorite has to be:- Morrison Janet. Daughter to John Morrison, Labourer Alum Works by his wife Janet Campbell was born 10th Aug 1836 and baptised 11th Sept 1836 (O.P.R.BIRTHS475/0040 0253 CAMPSIE) It fits all the facts as we know them. Throughout the various census's Janet's year of birth was put at 1836., and as the daughter of a labourer she was less likely to be taught to read and write. She was born in Campsie. At Janice's suggestion, I'm off now to try and trace her family through the census's. Wish me luck Jan :)

Hi Jan Yes, I had a laugh at that. Scotland is so repetative in names it can make you feel you are going round in circles? MORTON hey another variation of Morson or Morrison? Ohh Dear. Janice

Hi Janice Thanks for that. This might make you laugh, I got fed up with the Morson's of Campsie thing so I started looking at the BRYSON branch of the family. Andrew Bryson was born in Ireland, but as it turns out his brothers were born in Scotland, so I went onto Scotlandspeople to try and follow them through the years. I managed to get another 2 generations in a day, but was starting to have difficulty traceing what happened to one of the Bryson's. Anyway to cut a long story stort I found a possible and HE MARRIED A JANET MORTON OF CAMPSIE - I turned the computer off in disgust! Look after yourself Love Jan

Hi Jan Discount the Runcorn Cheshire Birkett family. Followed the through each census since 1841 and they remained there from what I can see, the John Birkett born 1822 seems to come from Liverpool, but he and his family remain there. So I would say back to the drawing board for where John Birkett came from before 1861 census. Janice x

Hi Jan I saw the John Birkett in Runcorn, Cheshire and must say I did wonder about that one. Plus I have found a baby John Birkett born September Quarter 1860 in Runcorn, Cheshire. Could John Senior have been back home with Janet to have her the baby and then moved on by 1861? Janice x