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Hi

Yes James Greenwood born circa 1832. Not 100% sure but I am 100% sure the 1861 census is correct.
Not 100% sure of the 1851 and less sure of the 1841.

I am 80% certain but can't be sure that Richard Greenwood and Betty Greenwood were married or James parents.

If I can confirm all this then I may find clues to Richards parents.

Thanks for your interest.

Just to confirm do you mean 1832 re as 1st message?

Hi all,

It's been a couple of years since I looked at trying to confirm the details in this thread.
Is the young boy born in Dirtcar is my James Greenwood born in 1932.

There may be more information available now.

If anyone is interested please read the thread.

After getting nowhere with John Heatley's parents.

I have been concentrating on James Greenwood 1832 today and after investing in a Ancestry subscription but I still can't find James Greenwood on the 1851 Census and still cannot be sure of his parents, find any siblings to back up the details in this thread.
If any does find a challenge the please read through and see if you can help.
Thanks
Simon

I love the expression PMSL it is so much more than LOL.

I do find some of these threads fascinating and sometimes very amusing.

Particularly when I am stuck trying to piece together James 1832 siblings and Uncles and Aunts.

I have been having fun with the Heatley's today particularly John Heatley (1811) the surgeon who was from the Preston area but lived in Manchester.
I still can't find a link between John and Captain William Heatley who owned Brindle Hall and built the church John worshipped in Manchester after the Captain died.

Simon

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/thread/1014044

(I wish it had ended in 2008; you'll remember Lewella from my Monck/Hill thread)

Thanks JC

I know Derker in modern day Oldham

On the 1851 census their are four entries with Dirtcar in them.

Anyway even 1841 the households were in walking distance from each other.
Different parts of modern day Shaw and Crompton

Modern day location

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Fir+Lane,+Oldham&daddr=Derker+St,+Oldham+OL1+3,+UK+to:Clough+Rd,+Shaw,+Oldham+OL2+8QD,+United+Kingdom&geocode=FZ59MQMdSJbf_ylt8R4Wrrl7SDHDbfCGbRahkA%3BFR4VMQMdlATg_ynVDRXvILh7SDFpqA22lrhXEQ%3BFTZ8MQMdrjrg_ymZ637VaLh7SDHI-NqqR4RcQQ&gl=uk&hl=en&mra=iwd&sll=53.578238,-2.115211&sspn=0.112927,0.308647&ie=UTF8&ll=53.561214,-2.104053&spn=0.056486,0.154324&z=13


I wonder how many other Greenwood and Whitehead households there were in 1841 and other than Susannah any relative over 45.

How many of them were living in 1851?

Do any of them a tangible connection to James 1832 other than the family found so far.

for info -- I assumed too much it seems -- the households were *in* Clough and Dirtcar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham

One of the oldest recorded named places of Oldham is Hathershaw, occurring in a deed for 1280 with the spelling Halselinechaw **Clugh**. Existing as a manor in the 15th century, Hathershaw Hall was the home of a Royalist family in the 17th century who lost part of their possessions due to the English Civil War. Waterhead, an upland area in the east of Oldham, traces its roots to a water cornmill over the border in Lees.

Recorded originally as Watergate and Waterhead Milne, it was for a long time a hamlet in the parish of Oldham that formed a significant part of the Oldham Above Town registration sub-district. **Derker** was recorded as a place of residence in 1604 with the name **Dirtcar**. Bound by Higginshaw to the north, Derker is the location of Derker railway station and, said to have terraced residencies "unsuited to modern needs", is currently being redeveloped as part of the Housing Market Renewal Initiative.[

Thanks JC

I would love to find an old map.

Their must be one in Oldham Library of Crompton from that time.

According to modern Google Maps Fir Lane and Clough Road are 2 miles apart

Dirtcar seems to have fallen out of use.

The Susannah Whitehead household is in District 13 ... on what looks like Dirtcar (road, street)!

The Betty Greenwood household is in District 8 on Fir lane.

The James Greenwood household in District 4 is on Clough.

That must be them, thanks

Just his immediate family living with him.

I wonder how far this is from where James was living with his grandma Suzanna.

Another Hannah too,

Good chance these are related to James 1832.

Thanks KC

Thanks JC

Firefox 4 is ok for me.

No Crompton or Shaw sub-district those two locations are not the same as the info as I found on IGI

I am hoping for an older relative living with him that might link him to Richard Greenwood and / or James 1832

I am fairly confident that Richard had a brother called James as Richards dad was James and James carried on down to every generation to the present including my eldest son.

Aargh, and both were wrong, Prestwich cum Oldham, this one:


Civil parish: Prestwich Cum Oldham
Hundred: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Ashton and Oldham
Sub-registration district: Crompton
district 4

James Greenwood 35 - cotton weaver (power)
Sarah Greenwood 35 - [?] knitter
Hannah Greenwood 10
Elizabath Greenwood 6
Maria Greenwood 2

Someone, S?

Ha.

I'll be right back with it. ;)


Here I am.

There are two.

[deleted two completely wrong ones resulting from total inattention]

James Greenwood 1805

Can some one please look up the 1841 census record for the household.


name: James Greenwood
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male
age: 35
birthplace: Lancashire
record type: Household
registration district: Ashton & Oldham
sub-district: Crompton
civil parish: Prestwich Cum Oldham
county: Lancashire

I agree, I am more sure than ever that James had siblings William and Hannah with parents Richard and Betty.

Richard probably died a few months before Hannah was born.

Richards Dad was Jane with mother Jane.

If Hannah Greenwoods parents are Richard and Betty then it all linkss together.

Thanks for your help.

and you never know ...

Deaths Jun 1838
Greenwood Richard Ashton &c 20 62

Deaths Mar 1839
Greenwood Henry Ashton 20 107
Greenwood Henry Ashton &c 20 3[79]

After I'd posted all that, I went hunting for Tracey's person

GREENWOOD, James Lodger Unmarried M 21 1830 Fustian Dresser Jy'man (born) Crompton Lancashire
Address: 33, Cook Street, Manchester County: Lancashire

and the Lake family he was living with, at Ancestry.

They are not there. Nowhere to be found in 1851 in Manchester at Ancestry.

No wonder I couldn't tie up that theory of mine before!!

It's still just a theory, though. ;)

I'd suggested two Hannah Greenwood births in Ashton reg dist in 1838, to see the parents' names ... but I guess that's the wrong place, really. Crompton is Oldham reg dist, and there's no matching birth registered there.

No ... hang on, the 1841 census says reg dist "Ashton and Oldham"; Oldham reg dist was created in 1848. So it is the right reg dist:

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ashton%20and%20oldham.html
Abolished : 31.3.1848 (succeeded by Ashton-under-Lyne and Oldham districts)
Crompton Lancashire 1837 to 1848

So "Ashton &c" is actually "Ashton and Oldham", I think, although FreeBMD doesn't note it as such.

Births Jun 1838
Greenwood Hannah Ashton & c 20 136
Births Dec 1838
GREENWOOD Hannah Ashton 20 81

I'd still take a flyer, starting with the first one.

The one with Betty Whitehead Greenwood is the only one like those that I see in 1841:

Betty Greenwood 30
William Greenwood 5
Hannah Greenwood 2
Civil parish: Prestwich Cum Oldham
Registration district: Ashton and Oldham
Sub-registration district: Crompton

Thanks for your hard work and insight.

You may have just found the missing link.

If James grandad was James then this is a possible marriage

Marriage: 22 Sep 1806 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
James Greenwood - Weaver of Shaw
Jane Turner - (X), Spinster of Shaw
Witness: Jonathan Jackson; Abraham Stott
Married by Banns by: Thos. Fawcett
Register: Marriages 1802 - 1808, Page 186, Entry 747
Source: LDS Film 1656117

Richard born in 1809 with James born in 1832

Living with grandmother Suzannah in Crompton 1841
Living as a lodger in Manchester 1851
Living in Bilston as Boilermaker in 1861

This all just about links together other than dodgy census records and no birth record of James.

Oops, I was hard at work all that time dredging around at pilot.familysearch ... to no avail at all.

Hello! Goodbye -- time to go home for one of the episodes of The Royal we missed earlier in the year!

Back tomorrow ...