Genealogy Chat

trying to locate my grandads family.

He has always been known as George Nield, but he found out years ago that this is the name his mother gave him when she got married two years after having him.

On his birth cert it has his name as george william hocknell todd, and his mothers name as margaret todd, but no fathers name.

It turns out according to the registrars that his mothers name was margaret hocknell and that her fathers name was william hocknell.

However his mother died in 1954 aged 59 but when you do the sums and work backward in the 1901 census their is no william hocknell with a margaret hocknell for a daughter as she would of been 5 yrs old.

We also cannot work out where the Todd came into the name.

my grandad was born on the 13-02-1918 and his mother married james arthur nield on the 18-12-1920.

really stuck any ideas as to how to go find info on this we have the marriage cert of james and margaret.

She may not have been with her father on census nught hence the lack of a William with daughter called Margaret, or they may have been mistranscribed or William may not even be her father.

If you are taking the name William from the marriage cert it might have been a fib to save face at the time.

Personally i would make a note of any entries for her name in the 1901 census and the approx time via the birth index.

If you can narrow down the time and place of her birth you might be able to order the cert from a local office with check points cheaper than the GRO. If things don't match and a local office don't supply a cert then you don't pay a penny for the search.

Glen

Hi Stacey

Is this his birth entry?

TODD George W H Todd Chorlton.8c 1019 1 1918

I would say you need to look for a Margaret Todd on the 1901 census as this was his mother's maiden name. Perhaps his father was called William Hocknell?

BW

Jane

yes this is his birth entry, just really difficult going back anymore than on his birth cert it has his mother as margaret todd and on her marriage cert it has her as margaret hocknell with father william hocknell, and shes down as spinster.

is it possible that Margaret Hocknell married a Mr. Todd, who could have died in WWI?

not sure as the only info i have is on her marriage sert it has her as spinster and james arthur nield as a widower so i kind of ruled that one out.

No the mother's maiden name is definitely TODD. Do you know the profession of William?

BW

Jane

Later...thanks you have posted that already


At her marriage to James Nield, what is Margaret's surname given as and is she spinster or ???

Sorry..I'm a bit slow tonight!
Joan

Well the only thing I can think of is that George was born out of wedlock and to save face Margaret has given herself and baby George the biological father's surname - Todd

or

The same thing happened to Margaret as a child. (Her father being William Hocknell, but her mother remarried to a Mr. Todd and he adopted her or vice versa)

What occupation is given for Margaret's father on her marriage certificate?

When you say that according to the registrars her name was Margaret Hocknell, do you mean the actual register office in Chorlton? If they said this, did they say whether or not George William Hocknell Todd was in their records as Todd still or is he in their records as Hocknell?

I only ask because on the birth indes there are three George Todds together all with mother's maiden name Todd, and I just wondered if this was just a mistake by the transcriber.

Kath. x

Sounds like she was Margaret Hocknell who had a child with a man surname Todd( very likely killed in the war as Louise suggests and maybe they hadn't had chance to get married) ...and she called herself Margaret Todd so the child wpould have his father's name

Having said that I can't find a Margaret Hocknell father William in 1901
Joan

Did James and Margaret have any children together?
I was thinking that we could look and see what was given as her maiden name on those childrens registrations.

Gwyn

How old was she on her marriage cert to Mr Neild?

Selena

thank everyone,

right her fathers occupation was cleansing inspector.
her age at marriage was 25
James and margaret did not have any children together but james did have other children to his other wife before she died they were an ada and jimmy nield.

The letter my grandad has is from the general register office London it states that:

'Your name on birth cert appears as George William Hocknell Todd the three names inserted in colunm 10 being your forenames and Todd being your surname.

we have traced records of a marriage of margaret hocknell to a james arthur nield on 18th dec 1920.

Margaret being the daughter of a William hocknell'

To me it sounds as if Joan is right.

I would have guessed that Margaret had a child by a Todd and wanted her son to have his father's name.

Technically then she couldn't have done so and couldn't have added father to the birth cert unless father came with her to the registration and gave his permission.

Calling herself Mrs or Miss Todd at the time of the registration meant she could ensure her son had the father's surname.

Either this relationship ended or Mr Todd died. She would then have had no reason to use anything but her own maiden name when she married. It becomes even more poignant if the father had indeed died in the war while she was pregnant.

Sue
x

I think I have solved the mystery!!!

Remembering a discussion we had on these boards a few days ago when I told some people that Daisy was often used as a pet name for Margaret I searched for a small Daisy Hocknell in 1901.

She's there aged 6 in Birkenhead with a William (a publican)

I haven't got full access to the 1901 so someone else needs to bring up the full page.

Sue
x

1901 Census

Name: Daisy Hocknell
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William H
Mother's Name: Annie
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland

Civil Parish: Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Birkenhead
Sub-registration district: Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
Harriett Hall 20
Annie Hocknell 37
Annie D M Hocknell 7
Daisy Hocknell 6
Harry Hocknell 4
Herbert Hocknell 9
Lily Hocknell 2
William H Hocknell 37 b.ca 1864, Seaul Brook, Leicestershire, Publican




Not sure about this one!



sylvia

all the other kids except Daisy born Birkenhead, Cheshire

Multimap reckons that Chorlton to Birkenhead is about 55 miles so that is certainly not beyond a possibility.

In Victorian times Margaret was often called Daisy because a Marguerite is a type of Daisy and the Victorians knew about the language of flowers.

A few days ago someone was asking about why her auntie Daisy had been known as Peggy. That was because Auntie Daisy had perhaps been actually baptised Margaret or a relation knew of the Daisy/Margaret connection.

Sue
x

Thinking about this Margaret overnight I am now pretty convinced that she is that Daisy.

Several possible pointers to that:

In Victorian times the names Daisy and Margaret were used rather as we might use Bill and William. The 1901 census shows Daisy's sibling Harry called by what could really be Henry. I think whoever told the enumerator the children's names used their everyday ones. My next move would be to check if Harry was Henry in BMD.

Margaret's birth is missing and there are no other Margaret Hocknells. Daisy was born in Ireland for some reason. I'd now check to see if Daisy is registered there or in Birkenhead.

Even if named Daisy at birth Margaret could have decided she felt more like a Margaret later in life!

I think this line is worth exploring further.

Sue
x
What Americans?