Genealogy Chat

This needs to be taken seriously, someone has recieved an email which threatens to termimate their account if they continue to do work for others.

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Ron

Many thanks for your reply...mind at ease again now.

I don't think this is a problem in the slightest. You are allowing someone to see the results of your research and maybe where that information came from, which is a different matter altogether.

The only thing I can see a problem with is sharing your tree and allowing the details of living people to be seen by other people, this is a no no and details of living people should not be made available to other people without the permission of the living people involved. This has been the subject of many postings on GR and and quite a few people have been very annoyed to see details of living people stolen from their tree and displayed on somebody else's tree.

Ron
www.genealogyprinters.com

Thanks for this thread Ron...I am still fairly new to this and my question is probably silly but I need to know.

Where does this leave us when sharing our tree on GR? I understand that there can be a human rights issue if living relatives are shared, but what about the rest of the tree? After all, the GR site gives an opportunity to put 'the source of data' on your tree entries, so if you put the source down and then share your tree, if you have gleaned the data from say Ancestry and have said so surely passing the info on by means of sharing your tree is no different than a look up? Can someone clarify, as I thought I was being helpful by putting the source of data on my tree entries, but perhaps I should leave that blank.

Quite correct Heather. That's exactly what I meant plus the fact that you don't quote the website where you got the information from or put a post on the board saying "Look up's from so & so's site available" which I have seen happen. Do that and you are asking for your subscription to be canceled.

Some people have quoted the T&C's from various sites and as you can see from the previous posts the T&C's differ for almost every site. I am not quoting from one site and no particular site prompted me to post the warning.

I'm just saying be aware that SOME SITES actually ban look up's and most sites do monitor the web traffic to ensure that look up's do not occur.

It's odds on that if you do the odd look up there won't be a problem but if you continually do look ups from the same site it may well be spotted.

Ron
www.genealogyprinters.com

Its also a bit iffy when people offer look ups on discs they have bought. The people who spend time transcribing the info and then putting them on discs obviously do it as a business.

I think we just all need to be a bit more sensible about it - i.e. as Ron says, just give the actual basic info, not copy and paste from other sites.

I have read most of the last 2 days comments.
I would like to say I hadnt seen in any of the comments I read, mention of the fact that when Family Record Centre was at Clerkenwell every one was able to access Ancestry for free. I havent yet been to Kew so I dont know how it is there.
how does that fit with the laww?.
Brenda

Thanks for that Claire.

hoobity boobity.♥, Ron is recomending that if you DO lookups you don't advertise where you have got the info from. If you look at some of the threads that offer to do lookups some clearly state the facilities that they have such as Ancestry & FMP.

I wonder what would happen if someone posted "I have GR Gold & will do lookups"!

Please correct me if I have picked this up wrong, but does this mean we should now NOT be doing look ups for other people which would sadly lead to the loss of these boards, apart from asking about general geneology questions.

Nudge for later.






libra.

Now when it comes to balls I'll use anyones !!!
Pass me the putter !

I would think that Ancestry would come down on the threads that advertise lookups first but who knows? So whilst I'm happy to help with the mistranscriptions but I'm not going to risk my subs & a possible heavy fine to do a lookup.

When you think about, if your hobby was golf would you expect to use someone else's equipment?

As far as I'm concerned it's carry on as usual and I'll wait for the knock on the door !

Two separate issues have been raised here.
Firstly, there's the issue of the T&Cs of the info providing site (Ancestry, FMP, etc) and of the posting site (GR say).
Secondly, there's the issue of copyright. Mostly, we're talking about Crown copyright, although I suppose there might be a question of whether Ancestry, say, had any copyright with respect to their added content of transcriptions (I'm inclined to think not, noting that Ancestry don't put any copyright notice on their transcriptions page.)

There is a document on Crown copyright, really relating to BMDs, but I think it has applications for the census, and excerpts are given below.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/advice/crown-copyright/copyright-guidance/copying-of-birth-death-and-marriage-certificates-and-marriage-registers.htm

This Guidance Note has been produced in consultation with the Office for National Statistics, General Register Office for Scotland and the General Register Office for Northern Ireland.

8. Government policy is not to authorise the copying of completed certificates except in the following circumstances:

b) by individuals or organisations for their own record keeping purposes, provided that the copies are not passed to others as evidence of birth, death or marriage;

d) within works of genealogical research undertaken by or on behalf of the family concerned where the work in question will be given limited distribution only. For the avoidance of doubt, a work will NOT be regarded as being given limited distribution if it is placed on the Internet;

f) by the transcribing and copying of the information contained in a certificate. The copyright does not subsist in the information on the certificate, but in the presentation of the information.


9. The copying of certificates that contain personal details, and the use of information taken from such certificates, may, in addition, be subject to:

b) further legal protection for an individual’s rights to be afforded under the Human Rights Act 1998.

c) the Data Protection Act 1998.


Note the key phrase in 8f): "The copyright does not subsist in the information on the certificate, but in the presentation of the information."

This means, e.g., that you can remind your spouse when the kids' birthdays are coming up, even after you've registered the births.

Actually, I think what I've seen as the typical practice here, where say I've has posted some census details (which is actually in a different form, even if it wasn't covered by one of the allowed exceptions), and then maybe I get a pm from *Mint Julep in Weardale* or whomever, and send them an image by regular email, falls under the allowed exceptions - 8d here. I never work on living people, so I don't worry about the privacy issues in 9b/c.

So, to summarize, I think the real issue here is with the sites' T&Cs, and copyright isn't a worry.

n

Thanks Ron for clarifying that.


Nicky

Libraries as probably know are owned by Local Government, who "owns" local Government, Central Govenment, who owns the National Archives, Cenral Government.

As part of the licensing conditions when companies apply and pay for a license to copy and use as an online databse the data a condition can be written into that license that local liraries have free access.

The same conditions are written into the contract and apply in America where the same conditions apply as regards ownership of the data and selling licenses, the American libraries also have free access.

The printing off of census images is allowed becaused it's for personal research only as stated in the T&C's.

Ron
www.genealogyprinters.com