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Joanne Report 21 Apr 2010 08:33

Hi All. I cannot begin to thankyou all so much for all your help and advice. Madmeg! I would be thrilled to receive it all by email that would be amazing. Annabel what a love you have been too, if there is anything I can do for either of you let me know Ha! not family tree stuff. Just out of curiosity I really would like to find the living relatives so I may go that way next although I'm not sure my dad is up to it maybe I can be in touch first. there is NO WAY that we would have found this information without you all we were dead sure that martha prior was the one I even have birth and death certs for her. maybe one day someone on here will be looking for her and I can give them to her. thanks againand if I need more help I will certainly know who to call.


Madmeg Report 20 Apr 2010 14:00

Hi Jo,

I wouldn't worry about the spelling difference. The people who transcribe parish records (whether for Annebel's CD or for the IGI) are instructed to transcribe it exactly as it is written, and not to make any guesses as to what it should really be. Imagine the vicar saying "What's the bride's family name?" and somebody says "She's one o' the Weavin's" - which could mean almost anything!

I'll set it all out for you and email it.


Annabel Report 20 Apr 2010 10:02

Hi Joanne

some one might be able to explain thing better than me, but here goes
Weavens or Weavng
People transcribing the original parish records may have had a job to read the writing or the vicar spelt it wrong,

Census 1871
Many mistakes are found in census, the family on the bottom of page 8 before the Rivers were called Prior , remember many people did not have a education years ago so could not read or write and signed with a cross next to their names

Carter, Ag lab same job working on a farm

I have enjoyed helping you .

cheers Annabel


Joanne Report 20 Apr 2010 08:27

Hi all its arrived. Emily born 20th April 1867 to father ALFRED MOTHER MARTHA WEAVING. why in marriage to Alfred october 1863 is she called Weavens? I really am struggling to understand quite a few things though.
why does it state so clearly in the 1871 census that Martha was Prior?, why does it say that Alfred was carter then ag,lab. what and how do i deal with all this info now . thanks so much to you all for continuing, but can you just help me put it in some order please. thanks Jo


Madmeg Report 19 Apr 2010 16:52

That ties in with the marriage of John Rivers to Dene Talbot in 1824, and the death of Denny Rivers in 1840. So our Alfred told porkies about his age while his wife was alive.

Looks like Jo is still waiting for the birth cert of Emily, which should show her mother as Martha Weavens. We already have a marriage of Alfred and Martha in Oct 1863, which tells us his father is John, mother Denny Talbot and Martha's parents John Weavens and Ann Palmer, married 1824.

I've just found Alfred in 1841 on Find My Past:

RIVERS, John* M 34 1807 Berkshire VIEW
RIVERS, Mary Ann F 14 1827 Berkshire VIEW
RIVERS, Charles M 9 1832 Berkshire VIEW
RIVERS, Alfred M 7 1834 Berkshire VIEW
RIVERS, Thomas M 3 1838 Berkshire VIEW

RG number:
HO107 Piece:
22 Book/Folio:
1/5 Page:

Registration District:
Hungerford Sub District:
Lambourn EnumerationDistrict:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
Garston, East Municipal Borough:
Garston, East, Garston, East County:

I think that "stitches him up", though Jo could get his marriage to Martha Weavens just to satisfy herself that his father is an Ag Lab, and to check his age - but I bet he lied about that.


Annabel Report 19 Apr 2010 06:22

Hi Joanne

Found a Baptism record for
Alfred Rivers 1833
East Garston Berkshire

Father name John Rivers
Mother name Denny.

I found it on

put in the name Rivers location Berkshire you will find lots of Rivers from East Garston



Madmeg Report 15 Apr 2010 21:38

Hi Joanne, but didn't we think that Martha was not a Prior, but Martha Weavens/Weaving? And I think we have Joseph on every census, 1891 with mum Emily, 1901 and 1911 with Uncle and Auntie. Pretty sure that is right.

Have you not yet had Emily's birth cert? You ordered it on 29th March. That is an unusually long delay. I would try ringing the GRO about it.

I am sure she will be a Weavens or whatever.



Cynthia Report 15 Apr 2010 18:50

I was really meaning other people's names on the certs Joanne - addresses etc. that sort of thing. Cx.


Joanne Report 15 Apr 2010 17:21

Hi Cynthia. Long time no speak. Not really anything interesting except on death cert it said Heart failure, which is also unfortunately common on dads side! the plot thickens. All I hope for is Emilys to turn up with mother Martha Prior and father Alfred and then hopefully we will be able to make some sense of all this. there has been so much information it has blown our minds. some of it just so doesn't tally age wise and there does seem to be an abundance of Rivers's especially alfreds. the main aim really in all this is to find where Joseph(grandad) came from and where he was on each census. he turns up with Annie Boulter his aunty in 1901 I think it is but dont have the info here with me. he was 22 then where was he at 11?? we have him at 1891 with martha = alfred etc when he would have been 1.


Cynthia Report 15 Apr 2010 13:45

Anything interesting on Martha Prior's certs Joanne??? Cx.


Joanne Report 15 Apr 2010 13:21

Hi All. Still no laptop I 'm afraid, but just to let you know that Martha Priors birth and death certs just turned up, as soon as Emilys arrive I will let you know. Much thanks again. Jo


Madmeg Report 10 Apr 2010 15:50

Berkshire records office charges for searches (fair enough) but intimates that a search in a specific church record for a fairly specific date will take half an hour, so goodness knows what searching for an unknown church with a range of 7 years will cost.


Joanne Report 10 Apr 2010 10:08

Hi . still no internet Im afraid but just wanted to thankyou all for still continuing with the mission.


Annabel Report 9 Apr 2010 02:54

Hi all

keep going though the parish's on my cd, but no luck need Uffington (Woolstone only starts 1849 before then Uffington ) which I do not have, also do not have East Garston, may be the Berkshire records office can help..



Madmeg Report 8 Apr 2010 15:42

In 1841, East Garston has only 13 pages, I have worked through them all. The likely reason that we can't find the family on them is that they are so faint that they aren't readable.

EDIT, the Find My Past people must have better eyes, cos they've found them.


Madmeg Report 8 Apr 2010 15:30

No such luck:

Deaths Jun 1840 (>99%)

RIVERS Denny Hungerford 6 133


Madmeg Report 8 Apr 2010 15:27

This might be John's marriage:

Male Family

Spouse: DENE TALBOT Family
Marriage: 23 OCT 1824 East Garston, Berkshire, England
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M018973 1813 - 1835 1279458 IT 14-17 Film NONE

Off to find Dene Rivers in 1841!


Madmeg Report 8 Apr 2010 15:21

Cynthia, I've looked at the original records. They are clear as bell on the ages.



Cynthia Report 8 Apr 2010 13:47

Hiya Meg. Are you looking at A or FMP? Just wondered if there could be a difference in transcriptions of age because that happened to me recently.???? Just a thought - not very useful I admit but......? Cx.


Madmeg Report 8 Apr 2010 13:09

Jo's now on the trail of Alfred Rivers who in 1851-91 is born 1840, in 1901 born 1832, in 1911 born 1834 and on death born 1834. The only post-1837 birth appears to be Mar 1841, St Saviour, and I reckon this is him:

1841 England Census
about Alfred Rivers
Name: Alfred Rivers
Age: 5 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Saviour
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: St Saviour
Sub-registration district: St Saviour
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Rivers 35 Publican
Ann Rivers 35
John Rivers 15
Jane Rivers 10
Emma Rivers 8
William Rivers 4
Alfred Rivers 5 Mo

But I'm struggling to find this family in 1851, to "prove" it's not our Alfred.

This could be our Alf in 1851, age 17:

1851 England Census
about John Rivers
Name: John Rivers
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: East Garston, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: East Garston
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hungerford
Sub-registration district: Kintbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
John Rivers 48 Widower
Mary Anneds 24
Alfred Anneds 17
John Thomas Anneds 13
Thomas Anneds 10 Mo Grandson

Mistranscription - Mary Anneds is Mary Anne do (ditto) Rivers 24, the rest are all Rivers. So Alfred is born 1834. They're all Ag Labs born East Garston.

I can't find this family in 1841. EDIT, now found.

So if our Alf was 17 in 1851, how did he become 20 in 1861?

Annabel, is there anything on your cd re a possible baptism of Alfred?