Genealogy Chat

WW2 service records are on the way -already with a family member

Possible 'new lead' apparently there may have been a name change in the past from Kinder to Jones. So now we have Alfred William Jones supposedly born 15/01/1917 (the subject of this original thread with no birth record) The birth record of one of his siblings shows mother Ellen Louisa Daniels (birth year yet to be determined) and father Alfred William Jones (birth year yet to be determined) occupation conjuring acrobat. The father of this A W Jones may have changed his name from Kinder to Jones. Forename may have been Frederick. Any suggestions on where to from here?

Thanks to all who have contributed thus far to this very confusing riddle

Hi Bryn

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/AboutDefence/WhatWeDo/Personnel/ServiceRecords/MakingARequestForInformationHeldOnThePersonnelRecordsOfDeceasedServicePersonnel.htm

for service records

Alfred William Jones 29 and Eileen Curbishley 27

What age does it give for them both on the marriage certificate Bryn?

Now have 1946 Nottingham marriage cert of Alfred William Jones and Eileen Curbishley. Under 'Father's Name' it has Alfred William Jones and occupation as labourer. Obviously gave up the conjuring acrobat profession by then!

Good tip to try WW2 records and I'll do that once I work out how :) Thanks again

Hi Bryn

Just looking over your post and was wondering if you'd ever thought about sending away for his WW2 records? I dont know exactly what they would give, but I would think a next of kin would be noted and that might provide some clues.

A bit of a long shot - but you never know!

1911 census - household transcription

Person: JONES, Alfred Stanley
Address: 12 Chapel St Birkenhead


JONES, Thomas James Head Married M 42 1869 Beer Seller Lancashire Manchester VIEW
JONES, Elizabeth Wife Married 22 years F 42 1869 Cheshire Sutton VIEW
JONES, Alfred Stanley Son Single M 15 1896 Artist Music Hall Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
MONAGHAN, Elsie Elizabeth Daughter Married F 18 1893 Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
21963 Reference:
RG14PN21963 RG78PN1308 RD452 SD1 ED6 SN125

Registration District:
Birkenhead Sub District:
Birkenhead Enumeration District:
6 Parish:
Birkenhead

Address:
12 Chapel St Birkenhead County:
Cheshire

Mary

It's Lowestoft Bryn and no, no connection. Lowestoft is in Suffolk (by the sea) and Carlton is in Nottinghamshire (virtually in the middle of the country).

Pardon my ignorance as I left UK at the age of 3 but is there any geographical relationship between Carton Road Lowescroft and Carlton Road Nottingham (see my related post in this thread dated 25 March)

Thanks RB, another worth looking out ... more options=more confusion :(

this is the one from Suffolk (born Norfolk)

1911 census transcription details for: 4 Clement Square Carlton Road Lowestoft

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN11053 RG78PN597 RD218 SD2 ED18 SN388


Reg. District: Mutford Sub District: Lowestoft
Parish: Lowestoft Enum. District: 18

Address: 4 Clement Square Carlton Road Lowestoft
County: Suffolk


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Hay Head Married M 46 1865 Labourer Pile Driver Earsham Norfolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Annie Maria Wife Married F 30 1881 Earsham Norfolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Emmily Rose Daughter Single F 20 1891 Day Girl Domestic Earsham Norfolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Ellen Louisa Daughter Single F 17 1894 Day Girl Domestic Earsham Norfolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Carroile Daughter Single F 15 1896 Day Girl Domestic Pakefield Suffolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, William Henry Son M 11 1900 School Pakefield Suffolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Mary Ann May Daughter F 9 1902 Pakefield Suffolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HUME, Annie Daniels Daughter F 8 1903 Pakefield Suffolk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

not very helpful I'm afraid

1911 census transcription details for: Union Workhouse Farnham, UNION WORKHOUSE

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN3134 RD34 SD3 ED11 SN9999


Reg. District: Farnham Sub District: Farnham
Parish: Farnham Enum. District: 11

Address: Hale Road Farnham Surrey
County: Surrey


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DANIELS, Ellen Louisa Inmate Single F 35 1876 Formerly A Parlourmaid Kent Stelling Minnis

The conjuring acrobat bit came as shock as family folklore about him being a trapese artist has always been dismissed...

I can now rule out the 1882 Ellen Louisa Daniels as that one died in 1885. That leaves the 1878 one as likley.

Christine, the marriage of Nellie sounds like a lead worth looking at. I find the birth of Leslie F Jones born 1917 curious. If its correct thats the same year Alfred William Jones was born (the original subject of this thread). Conjecturing about him being adopted hence no birth record? Again worth a follow up.

Rutland, do you have the full details of the Farnham Surrey listing? That seems the closest to the year of birth

Thanks to all - some very useful stuff

Ellen is not at 137 Wellingborough Rd, Northants in 1911

Don't all laugh at once as I'm on one of my flights of fancy again...... but.......he was a conjuring acrobat so probably moved around a lot and if it was a shotgun marriage in the same quarter as Elsie was born and they wanted to keep it a secret ?????????

I can't find a marriage for an Ellen L Daniels to Jones but could she possibly have hated the name Nellie? There is a marriage for a Nellie E Daniels to an Alfred W Jones Sept 1914 in Norwich 4b 287. Also, I can't find any Jones children mmn Daniels born in or around Norwich.

I still can't find a birth for Ronald but there is this possible for Leslie -
Sept 1917 Leslie F Jones mmn Daniels Woolwich 1d 1713.

As he is a conjuring acrobat maybe we need to think outside the usual boxes?

Bryn I hope you don't mind me butting in but I'm pretty sure the address you have given for Ellen Louisa Daniels should be Wellingborough Road

I looked on 1911 and there are only 3 Ellen Louisa Daniels and one of those is only 10

these are what come up

INSTITUTION DANIELS ELLEN LOUISA F 1876 35 Farnham Surrey
HOUSEHOLD DANIELS ELLEN LOUISA F 1894 17 Mutford Suffolk
HOUSEHOLD DANIELS ELLEN LOUISE F 1901 10 Paddington London
HOUSEHOLD DANIELS LOUISA ELLEN F 1890 21 Guildford Surrey

Thanks JP, I have Alfred William Jones' Australian death record but it doesn't shed any further light. I also sent a PM to Debbie when she first offered but no reply. Thanks anyway

Sorry that was 7 Oct 1914 for Elsie (not 17)

I have new information and welcome any advice please... I now have a birth record for a sibling - Elsie May Jones born 17 Oct 1914: It shows mother as Ellen Louisa Daniels of 137 Nellingborough Road Northampton U.D. and father as Alfred Jones, occupation "conjuring acrobat" of Castle Street Northampton U.D.

I have been unsiccessful in locating the marriage record of these two. There are 2 Ellen Louisa Daniels; 1878 Pershore and 1882 Islington. I don't know where to go from here! How can I work out which is the correct Ellen Daniels? And, how can I work out amongst the numerous which Alfred Jones is the right one? Over 1 month looking now and still not much closer. I welcome some help please

Hi. I'm in Australia and am wonderig what state he died in. Can do some research here if he did. Regards Debbie