Genealogy Chat

Hi All, I have given the GRO all the details and await their results. I have said 1861 +3yrs as this links in with the age on her marriage certificate(if she was telling the truth) also asked them to look for father a printer and to check wandsworth and croydon (which was Merton district) this will cover all the areas she has given as places of birth on the census's.
I hadnt realised that his was a service they offer so thank you for that tip.
It could take up to 3 weeks so I will be on tenterhooks now.
I have also discovered one of my neighbours is into industrial archaelogy and I have asked him to check with one of the experts in his group about copper mills and printing industry etc and given him the details to see what they think .
This family history stuff really takes you down some interesting alleys doesnt it?. If they had taught history like this at school I may have been more interested.!.
Thank you all so much for your help and information I will keep you posted..Thanx Rachx

Good luck Rachel.

I understand what you are saying about the James Miller born Scotland and yes the girls births would fit in, I wrote all the dates down on a notepad.

Still think there is something we are missing about Matilda and her siblings though.

Who said family history was easy!

Jennifer

Hi Nicky and rutland belle, I think that mary ann and albert are the children of the James Miller from scotland living in cripplegate I mention in my previous message. which prompted me to think that he may have the .girls' visiting scotland if he is the one. the gaps in the births years could fit in with our girls?. Anyway going to call the GRO today to see if they can solve matildas birth. Thanx guys x

This is the Albert Miller who married Ada Ann wiggs in 1908 whom RutlandBelle put the details up for..

1911


MILLER, Albert Head Married M 41 1870 Telegraphist Newspaper London Cripplegate VIEW
MILLER, Ada Wife Married
2 years F 28 1883 London Lambeth VIEW
WIGGS, Frederick Brother In Law Married M 46 1865 Labourer Riverside London Lambeth VIEW
WIGGS, Alfred Nephew M 13 1898 Schoolboy London Bermondsey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2066 Reference:
RG14PN2066 RG78PN72 RD25 SD4 ED17 SN340

Registration District:
Lambeth Sub District:
Brixton Enumeration District:
17 Parish:
Lambeth

Address:
2 Wynne Road Brixton S W County:
London




Nicky

the London marriages and baptisms are on Ancestry Premium and are really good. Just wish I had more of mine in London!

OH thank you, I will contact the register office tomorrow and see if all the info we have now can be of help to locate Matilda birth certificate. My head is spinning now with James Miller and his merry band. I had hoped we would find the girls all visiting relatives in scotland just to catch them all together as it would seem that they are all related and the last two as well. I mean how many james miller printers are there. Your help has been fantastic. I am obviously not subsrcibed to the right site as I cannot get that info re marriages from the one I subsribe to. HUGE THANX your amazing rach x

1861 Scotland
Name: James Miller occ; Calico Printer
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Denny, Stirlingshire
Registration Number: 572
Registration district: Neilston
Civil Parish: Neilston
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Gallochers Land
Occupation: Calico Printer
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 151
Line: 20
Roll: CSSCT1861_79
Household Members: Name Age
James Miller 34
Jean Miller 43 sister
George Lawson 14 sister's son
Henry Corbet 8 sister's son
John Andrew 55 lodger

also:

Name: Mary Ann Miller
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Spouse Name: Francis Alfred Johnson
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 13 Dec 1891
Parish: St Philip, Stepney
County: London
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: James Miller Calico Printer deceased.
Spouse Father Name: Frank Francis Johnson


Don't know if it helps or not

a marriage:

Name: Albert Miller
Age: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Spouse Name: Ada Ann Wiggs
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 19 Dec 1908
Parish: St Mary at Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: James Miller
Spouse Father Name: Frederick Wiggs

James Miller was a calico printer (Deceased)

Albert's address is given as 4 Old Palace Buildings. occ: Clerk

Rachel, Ancestry has the transcriptions for Scotland but not the images. Scotland's People has all the census images but it is a pay per view site-you buy credits.

I can have a look on Ancestry for you.

Jennifer

Hi guys, just athought after reading some of the other queries. Would it make a differnece if they were staying in scotland during the sensus?. Is that a seperate census?.
I found a
James miller printer on the 1871 census and maybe the girls were staying with relatives in scotland on the census night?.
his details are
braims buildings london city st giles without cripplegate. (near the other james i mentioned)
james miller printer b 1828 scotland
jane wife b 1828 scotland
son james 1852 kent
maguy daughter 1854 scotland
jane daughter b 1856 surrey
jesey b 1858 surrey
mary ann b 1864 surrey
albart son b1870 middlesex.

does Rosina sound like a scottish name?. What is interseting is that one of the girls listed above is born in scotland so they did visit up there?....what do you think? is there a site I can find scottish census?.
thanx rach

nicky and maureen, thank you for all the research you are doing on Matilda. I have tried all the james millers on the census's to see if i can find him but not the right guy. I found a james miller printer in 1871 born 1829 essex married to a jane. he lives in st giles but in 1881 he is in the workhouse at edmonton with his wife.
I can only find about three james millers printer in the last hundred odd years!!!. I am definatley off to bed now. thanx ladies

Could we do a time line/birth place for these women???

Said she,about to go watch TV and then go to bed.

Maureen

Yep Maureen your right...definetly losing it.....

didn`t realise Sarah and hubby were the witnesses...

So we have definetly confirmed they are all sisters....

But what name they are under prior to their marriages is anyones guess??


Nicky

Nicky-
You're getting as looped around as I am.

But:
Name: Matilda Miller
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Spouse Name: Richard Stanley
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 02 Jun 1884
Parish: St Andrew, West Kensington
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham
Father Name: James Miller occ:(need I mention it??)
Spouse Father Name: Richard Stanley

Witnesses are Sarah Ann and Charles Eves.

And it just snowballs back and forth from there.


Maureen

Rachel ..when i put up the 1911 census entry and said it was sister Harriet, I meant the lady we believe to be sister of Matilda from the marriage entries put up by the others on the first 2 pages of this thread.

Harriet Miller married John charles Hall, with her father father listed as James miller a Printer.

As you say we have no proof of this, apart from the census entrie where one sister is staying with another and is down as sister in law to the other sisters husband....we know those 2 are related, but still havn`t actually tied them to Matilda...

I spent quite a lot of time yesterday trying to find these girls together in earlier census`s but had no luck.


EDIT...Just looked back at the previous info on thread...so we`ve confirmed that Harriet ,Sarah Ann and Rosina are all sisters from their 1891 and 1901 census entries where they are staying with each other...what we havn`t done is tie Matilda to them...apart from the fact she listed a James Miller Printer as her father on her marriage cert also.

Nicky.

Ooo Nicky that looks exciting. I can add that to my info to see if that helps track the' girls'. The marriage date could be about right the est birth date would be bout 1832 so he could be old enough to be the father for all three of our suspected siblings.

Also going back to the original link I had with the lab in copper mill and then he is a printer I have found some sort of link to the two with the 1841 census .A family of 'millers living at Merton. james C1786 is a coppersmith, and his son james circa 1827 is only 14 but living with them is a john miller circa 1819 printer and a harriet circa 1816 (wife). So there is a bit of a link with the copper mill and a printer. It could be the same James David as the James in 1841 has a brother David so it is a family name. Following this family to 1851 has the father James b1786 still in merton as a lab in the copper mill and his other son still at home abraham is a lab in a print factory. thanx rach

What about this?

James David Miller the groom is a printer..

James David Miller
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Spouse Name: Jane Harrigan
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 09 Jun 1853
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth
County: Surrey
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: James David Miller
Spouse Father Name: Patrick Harrigan


Nicky

Hello Nicky,Thank you. But how do you know that is her sister?.Where should I look to find that?
I am beginning to think there is something v odd here. I cannot find these girls.

I have contacted Wandsworth register office and they say that they have no record of any of the girls, No matilda, Sarah Ann or Rosina, (the Rosina they had was the one with George for a father) so I shall contact the main one next week and see what comes up. What a puzzle
I will keep you posted.
thanx Rach.

This is sister Harriett with husband John in 1911...her place of birth changed from 1901 from Whitchapel to Mitcham...


HALL, John C Head Married M 58 1853 Machinery Oil Hand London Wandsworth VIEW
HALL, Harriett Wife Married
39 years F 58 1853 London Mitcham VIEW
HALL, James Boarder M 7 1904 VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
2213 Reference:
RG14PN2213 RG78PN75 RD26 SD2 ED25 SN56

Registration District:
Wandsworth Sub District:
North West Battersea Enumeration District:
25 Parish:
Battersea

Address:
59 Darien Road Battersea County:
Londo



Nicky