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Can't find them - can anyone help please?

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 22 Apr 2013 17:49

Hi Girls,

Your right LancashreAnn they are a flipping nightmare.

Just received email to confirm the birth of James Lewis Miller was 2nd Dec 1931, it confirms his father was also James Lewis Miller - this is the one born around 1883 .

I take the point Christina that he could have been registered in the 1st quarter of 1932. But it just shows you how things can easily throw you.

IRegards, Lou


lancashireAnn Report 22 Apr 2013 17:41

The Miller families can be quite a nightmare. I have Miller's from the Liverpool are in my tree - most of them called John or William or William John. It has taken me about 5 years to identify one of the Williams!


ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 16:02

If James Miller was born in December 1931, then it's perfectly likely that he wouldn't have been registered until the Jan-March quarter of 1932

As Ellen Miller was also married to a Ship's Carpenter, I would think it more likely that she was married to James' father's brother (Sarah's husand).

Problem with that though, is that she was married to a James. So if Sarah's husband was James' brother, his name is almost certainly John, and not James.

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 22 Apr 2013 14:19

Hi LancashireAnn and ChristinaS

Thanks so much for trying to help, all I can say is that she says he was born in 1931. was going on what I was told. He died in 1992. I looked at death records and found one that matched the information I was given; =
James Millier b 2 Dec 1931 died 1992 Birkenhead.

I'm emailing her as we speak asking if she has his birth certificate or his full birth date so that we can clarify his actual year of birth.

LancashireAnn - I do agree with you as that was the only birth I could find too, but it doesn't match with what I'm told or the death I found.

It's so confusing as nothing really adds up. One minute it looks as if his father was born in Liverpool, the next it's Scotland. I can't find anything that consistently matches up anywhere on any census. I think I'm on the trail then it falls apart.

But all the help given is very much appreciated.

ChristianaS I went down that route too and realised that we have no proof she's related, the same as with Ellen Miller - I actually thought it was his aunt (father's sister) but once again I cannot find her with a sibling named James.

Very frustrating....

Regards Lou


ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 12:44

Frances Agnes Robinson nee Miller died in Manchester in 1969 (born 1887)

There's a birth registration for Frances Agnes Miller born 1887 Macclesfield, Ches. but I can't see her any censuses

EDIT: Have just realised that we have no proof that this Frances was related to your James Miller.


lancashireAnn Report 22 Apr 2013 11:57

just to clarify again

there is no James Miller with mmn = Hughes in 1931. He was born in 1932

Births Mar 1932 (>99%)
Miller James I Hughes W.Derby 8b 666

the 'I' on the image is unclear - it could be an 'L'

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1931
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MILLER James HUGHES Mary Everton, St. John The Evangelist Liverpool 2109WD/2/221


ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 11:02

Still in Sumner Street

Baptised August 1882 - James Miller - parents John & Sarh - shipwright

Thanks for putting the link up Stuart - even though it does make it more confusing.


ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 10:53

Same address again.

Baptism for William Miller - January 1881 - parents John & Sarah - shipwright

So your James could be the son of Ellen, but his middle name was Murray and not Lewis :-S


ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 10:50

There's a Liverpool baptism for above address:

James Murray Miller - baptised Dec.1880 - parents James & Ellen - shipwright


greyghost Report 22 Apr 2013 10:46

Previous thread to which Looby Loo refers in her OP


ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 10:43

It certainly seems like a good possibility.
This looks like her in 1881.

Household Members:
Name Ellen Miller - 21 - Ship's Carpenter's Wife - Scotland
James Miller - son - 5 mons - Liverpool

In the same house as:

1881 England

Civil parish: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 38 Sumner St
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Marti
Piece: 3600
Folio: 83
Page Number: 23
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Miller - mar - 29 - Ship's Carpenter's Wife - Scotland
Jane Miller - dau - 7 - Scotland
John Miller - son - 5 - Scotland
Sarah Miller - dau - 4 - Scotland
Emily Miller - dau - 3 - Lancs.
William Miller - son - 3 mons. - Lancs

So your James could be Ellen's son, or maybe Sarah's

Need to go a bit further to see who they were married to.

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 22 Apr 2013 09:30


Taking into account what you found in 1911

I looked at 1901 and found this

Ellen Miller Head b

Ellen Miller married b 1856 Liverpool
James Miller son b 1881 Ships Carpenter
James Miller nephew b 1884 Ships Carpenter
looks like he's living with his aunt.

What do you think?


~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 22 Apr 2013 09:15

Hi MarieCeleste,

She's told me that on her father's birth certificate (b 1931) it states his father's full name which is James Lewis Miller.

To clarify

James Lewis Miller b 1931
His father was James Lewis Miller b 1883 Joiner he married Mary Hughes
His father was James Miller b between 1850 - 1860 Ships Steward.

This morning I finally found just 1 James Miller born within the time frame and IS a Ships Steward

1881 James Miller b 1855 Stepney Middlesex
Sarah Miller b 1860 Limehouse Middlesex wife
Albert H Miller b 1880 Limehouse Middlesex

The family are living with Sarah's parents Robert E & Mary Hayes.

I've tried searching for James & Sarah after this date but can't find a match. I've found that their son continued living with his grandparents in 1891 - 1901 but no parents around.

Hi ChristinaS

Thanks very much that does sound like the son James b 1883c the joiner, I wonder if his family left Albert behind and moved to Scotland for a while???



ChristinaS Report 22 Apr 2013 08:41

On the 1911 census for West Derby, there is:

James Miller - crew - 30 - single - carpenter - Forfar, Dundee

Working for White Star Line


MarieCeleste Report 22 Apr 2013 07:43

Hello again Lou - if that's the full info from the marriage cert then where does the middle name of Lewis fit in? Is it only the son born 1931 that had that?

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 22 Apr 2013 05:45

Hi Lancashire Ann,

Yes she has the marriage certificate now and this is the full info she has given me,

James Miller (aged 48) – Joiner – married Mary Hughes (aged 29) on 28th February 1931. James' Father was James Miller. He was deceased at the time of his son’s marriage – His occupation was a ships steward. At the time of the marriage his father was deceased.

I can now see why I kept getting confused. I've been looking at the wrong generation. You see they had a son also named James b in 1931 and I thought he was the joiner she was talking about and his father that was the ships steward b 1883, but it's the generation further back.

I am so sorry everyone, only just got this clarified.



lancashireAnn Report 21 Apr 2013 23:11

are you sure you have got the right facts Lou

the only Miller with mmn = Hughes was born in 1932 (James I. on freebmd but it could be either L or I on the image)

the marriage of Miller to Hughes was of a James with no second name at Everton St John's. Does your friend have the actual certificate?

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 21 Apr 2013 19:54

Sorry MarieCeleste,

I told you I keep getting mixed up.

The one b 1883 was the ships steward, the one born 1931 was the joiner.


MarieCeleste Report 21 Apr 2013 19:41

Sorry Lou - in your opening post you said that the man who married in 1931 was a ships steward? So it's the other way round?

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 21 Apr 2013 19:30


His father's name was James Lewis Miller a Ships Steward.

Thanks lou