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Census: interpretation of recorder's handwriting.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Horrace

Horrace Report 3 May 2013 12:41

Hi InspectorGreenPen,

Thank you for your advice here.

There's a lot to this genealogy and it can sometimes get a bit involved, so your input is valued and appreciated.

InspectorGreenPen

InspectorGreenPen Report 3 May 2013 10:00

You need to work on unravelling the Carter / Webster / Garner / Platt relationships next.

You already have the Carter-Webster and the Platt-Garner marriages, so that's part of it done. It looks like it is the Webster / Garner one that is next to solve.

Certs are probably needed to get all the answers.

Horrace

Horrace Report 3 May 2013 09:27

Hello MarieCeleste,

Thank you for the marriage details of Robert Reed Carter and Esther Webster.

This whole thread will now take some analysing; there's a lot to take in and look at!

Best wishes.

Horrace

Horrace Report 3 May 2013 09:21

Hello Mary,

Thank you for your interesting input.

That last line is worth pursuing of course.

And you are right that the relevant certificate is needed!

Best wishes.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 2 May 2013 20:55

No harm in following that tack:

Marriage: 6 Nov 1854 St Lawrence, Barton, Lancashire, England
Robert Reed Carter - Full age, Baker, Bachelor, Ardwick in the parish of Manchester
Esther Webster - Full age, Spinster, Barton
Groom's Father: Robert Carter, Weaver
Bride's Father: Samuel Webster, Waterman
Witness: George Flemming; Margaret Griffiths
Married by Licence by: Thomas Duell, Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1850 - 1928, Page 9, Entry 17
Source: LDS Film 1470930

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 2 May 2013 20:52

That's an interesting find, Mary.

I'd guess that Esther Webster was the sister of Esther Garner's father. If he'd acknowledged paternity and she was accepted as being his daughter then there's no reason why she wouldn't be with an aunt on her father's side.

Obviously, that birth certificate is needed ...

Mary

Mary Report 2 May 2013 20:37

Esther Webster married 1854 O/N/D in Preston lancs 8e 566 to Robert Reed Carter.
I have searched to see if Hannah was nee Webster with sister Esther but had no luck.No sign of marriage for Webster - Garner either.
Esther is not with Aunt Esther in 1861 so could it be the same one who is with Hannah Platt 1861??

Maryb.

Horrace

Horrace Report 2 May 2013 20:37

Hi InspectorGreenPen,

Thank you for your information.

You are absolutely right in your observation that there are many errors in both: the censuses of all years, and in bmd records too. In that one sheet of the 1861 census there are many errors due to the recorder's 'ditto-ing' of the birth county as Lancashire, etc, when the later ones are actually in Cheshire!

Horrace

Horrace Report 2 May 2013 20:37

Hi InspectorGreenPen,

Thank you for your information.

You are absolutely right in your observation that there are many errors in both: the censuses of all years, and in bmd records too. In that one sheet of the 1861 census there are many errors due to the recorder's 'ditto-ing' of the birth county as Lancashire, etc, when the later ones are actually in Cheshire!

Horrace

Horrace Report 2 May 2013 20:25

Hello Reggie,

Thanks for all your interest in my question, and for the details you have posted to me, which are very interesting and must have involved you in quite a lot of work.

To answer your last question as to why I call her a ' relative'.
I have inherited a lot of information from my mother's Platt mother i.e.my grandmother, who I knew personally for about 8 years when she lived with me and my parents until her death in November, 1947; and from my Platt great aunts, all from Runcorn, who I also knew personally. I have their own father's and mother's funeral cards, the actual original (larger sized) death certificates, and many other written details by one of those Platt great aunts. George Platt, born 1816, is my great-great grandfather, and his second wife's daughter is therefore related by his second marriage to me, albeit very remote.

InspectorGreenPen

InspectorGreenPen Report 2 May 2013 18:34

I think you have it in your OP

Esther Webster Garner born 3rd Qtr of 1853 in Manchester. Order the Cert.

Subsequent censuses are full of transcription / recording errors but record her as the niece of Robert and Esther Carter. Needs a bit more research to work out just who they were.

1871

Name: Esther Tarner
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Broughton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: St Jude
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 43
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 4033
Folio: 161
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Carter 46
Esther Carter 46
Esther Tarner 18

1881

Name: Esther Garnet
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 104 Butler St

Occupation: Domestic Servant

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3983
Folio: 42
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert R. Carter 57
Esther Carter 58
Esther Garnet 27

1891

Name: Esther Garner
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hoole
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Hoole
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Chester
Sub-registration district: Chester Cathedral
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2866
Folio: 135
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Esther Carter 68
Esther Garner 36
William Ackerley 26
Charles H Roberts 22
Edward Lanagan 19

Horrace

Horrace Report 2 May 2013 18:03

GlitterBaby,

Thank you for that info. from Ancestry clarifying Easter as her (possible) correct name.

Horrace.

Horrace

Horrace Report 2 May 2013 17:52

Hello Stuart,

Thank you for this clarification of my query, and also for your considered opinion.

It is in accord with my own.

It looks like someone has located it in Ancestry, as you can see in my later threads.

Best wishes,

Horrace

Reggie

Reggie Report 2 May 2013 13:56

You refer to this girl as your 'relation'.........................so one would have thought you'd know what her name was.

How did you work back to her?

Reggie

Reggie Report 2 May 2013 13:54

For confirmation.............ONLY

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1856 to 1860

PLATT George GARNER Hannah Great Budworth, St Mary Cheshire West 126/3/359

Reggie

Reggie Report 2 May 2013 13:50

Not with her mother in 71

1871 census


Person: PLATT, Hannah

Address: Bell's Brow, Barnton



PLATT, George Head M 54 1817 Cheshire VIEW
PLATT, Hannah Wife F 55 1816 Cheshire VIEW
PLATT, Henry Son M 22 1849 London VIEW
BANCROFT, Joseph Apprentice M 15 1856 Cheshire

Reggie

Reggie Report 2 May 2013 13:42

As there were no penalties for not registering births until 1875, many births went unrecorded.

Have you thought of looking for a baptism?

I would agree with Stuart about the image..........

Stuart

Stuart Report 2 May 2013 13:42

?? Civil Registration event: Marriage

Name: PLATT, George
Registration district: Runcorn
County: Cheshire
Year of registration: 1857
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 8A
Page no: 246
MarriageFinder: George Platt married one of the following people:

BROWN, Anna
GARNER, Hannah
CROSS, Luke

If this was the Platt/Garner marriage, then the marriage certificate would hopefully show whether widow/spinster at time of marriage.

The 1851 census shows George Platt (above 1861 census) with wife Eliza in Barnton, Cheshire - Northwich RD. There are Eliza Platt deaths Northwich RD 1851 and 1855, but no ages given.

GlitterBaby

GlitterBaby Report 2 May 2013 12:47

Ancestry have it as Easter

Stuart

Stuart Report 2 May 2013 12:21

1861 for reference - family in Cheshire
1861 census transcription details for: Bells Brow, Barnton

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 2600
Folio: 43
Page: 18
Reg. District: Northwich
Sub District: 1 Weaverham
Parish: Barnton
Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District: Christchurch
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Bells Brow, Barnton
County: Cheshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
PLATT, George Head Married M 45 1816 TailorLittle Leigh, Lancashire
PLATT, Hannah Wife Married F 45 1816 Chester, Lancashire
PLATT, George Son M 17 1844 Tailors BoyLondon
PLATT, Henry Son M 12 1849 London
PLATT, Mary Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar London
PLATT, Charles Son M 8 1853 Scholar Barnton, Cheshire
PLATT, Harriet Daughter F 6 1855 Barnton, Cheshire
GARNER, Caster Wifes Daughter F 7 1854 Scholar Manchester, Lancashire

My opinion, after looking at the original, is that her name begins with E. Could be someones way of spelling Esther, although there is such a name as Easter as a female forename.