Genealogy Chat

Thankies Sylvia :-D :-D
You are right.
OH did say....... Perches not Purches

the old memory hasn't quite gone, yet :-D

Wow....just read all the new messages. Thank you!

Just to confirm - yes there was 4 sons in total. ....Patrick, Thomas, Owen and John........all born in County Mayo apart from the last which was Grindale East Yorkshire.
Catharines maiden name is Freney.....
ok I'll have a look at your link and come back to you

thank you!

Ok first question.....did I know John Rowleys death record provided a father name?.....I bought his death certificate which I can send to you. ...he died in 1850 of diseased lungs in the Scarborough workhouse. ...he was just 40 but didn't know of his fathers name!....where can I get this?

Ok now for the Owen points. ......all seems believable and that townland seems to fit with the baptism record of John Rowley the 4th son...... but why would Owen be the tenant? I didnt think he was born until early to mid 1840s in Mayo......I will keep lookinh at this.......interesting - are all of the lodgers mentioned here....? Catharine, John (dad), Patrick and Thomas?

In the 1851 census Owen is 6 yrs old.......so born c1845.....so how could he be in a mayo record in 1834? Forgive me if im being a little slow!!

Just a thought and may be completely off track here but "natus" in Latin means born, produced.
Could it be that the priest is saying the family were from County Mayo.
Is Dunatas a place name?

Mark.
John and Catherine Rowley had 4 sons: Patrick, Owen, Thomas and John.

Very often, children were named for their grandparent.
John Rowley ( died 1850) may have named one of his sons for his own father

Again yes this is a possibility.
Im going to contact the Killasser parish anf find out if they have a register for bmds anf hopefully this may shed some more light

The Owen Rowley in the Doontice land record could be the father or an uncle or a cousin of John ... finding that name which is not the most common, in Mayo County in a place that sounds very much like 'Dunatas' when spoken by someone with 'an accent' who was illiterate (everyone was) to an English clergyman ... well, is there a better theory? :-)

I think I agree, this is quite a strong link and the "dunatas" is very similar to "doontice".
I cant see the name "Owen" on the link but only "O".....is this nomal?

I just want to say a big thank you to everybody that has helped so far.

i'll keep the thread alive because I am awaiting a response from the Killasser parish.

Many thanks
Mark

You clicked on the 'O' link? it opens the pdf document, enlarge it and it really says

O'n

rather than O (as the one below says Pat'k)

the 'n' is superscript showing it is the short form, like Rob't and Rich'd and Eliz'th in old records.

There is an 1865 marriiage in Killaser of an Owen Freney to Honor Henegan.
This man's father was also caled Owen Freney

Also, if anyone has access to FMP ?
Could they look at this?
Thomas Rowley, "United Kingdom, Chelsea Pensioners' Service Records, 1760-1913"
Name: Thomas Rowley
Event Type: Pension
Event Year Range: 1760-1913
Event Place: United Kingdom
Birthplace: Mayo
Birth Year (Estimated): 1820

I'm afraid I don't know quite what this is ...

http://www.logainm.ie/Image.aspx?PlaceID=36525&Url=text&NoBlock=yes

but there are a number of 1838 references to

Doonty
Doonty
Dúnta
Dúnta (forts)
Doontas and Doontee
Doon
Doontee
Doonties
Doontice

Doontice is the only one with the 'TAB' reference which would be the Tithe Applotment Book.

It seems like there may have been various names/spellings for the same place?

using the 'back' link at the top we get:

http://www.logainm.ie/Place.aspx?PlaceID=36525

contae - Maigh Eo/Mayo [county]
barúntacht - Gaileanga/Gallen
paróiste dlí - Cill Lasrach/Killasser [parish]

baile fearainn
Na Dúnta
gin. na nDúnta
(Gaeilge)

Doonty
(Béarla)

Taifid chartlainne
. taifid téacs

It seems to be suggesting variant names :-)

Anyone here who speaks the necessary language??

ah, google translate is of some limited help ... the heading at the top of the list of places at the first link 'Taifid chartlainne' is 'archival records' and 'taifid téacs' is text records ... 'baile fearainn' is townland ... and I was right about the 'back' link.

in the 1901 census there is one household in Doonty townland and there are several housholds in Doonties East/West. They are in different 'DED's in Mayo but I don't know what that is.

Thomas Rowley born 1820 Ballinrobe Mayo
Served only 1843 to 1844 and discharged due to chronic lung disease.
He was single and gives no parental information.

Does the Baptismal Record not indicate which Church...???

Hi Eringobragh,
Do you mean the 1850 baptism mentioned on Marks OP?

I had to see before I fully understood what he meant.
The child was born and baptised in Grindale, Yorkshire, England and is annotated with an alternate place of abode... Dunatas, Co Mayo, Ireland.

We expect that the family had very recently arrived in Yorkshire from Co Mayo, with 3, older, Irish born sons
Father John Rowley died around the same time. Mother, Catherine and all 4 sons were in the workhouse at 1851

Just to note re the list of variant names I posted above

the image could easily be read as D.....tees or D....ties

I don't think there's much doubt about it referring to that place, by the best approximation the clergyman could come up with for what the couple was telling him :-)

I just put into google images "doontice county mayo".....plenty ig images came back......so im confident that place is there today....also theres a local church so ive emailed them for any church records

Mark,
On an earlier part of this thread, you said that Catherine Rowley widow, married Francis McGuire in 1857 and disappeared.
Son John was baptised in Grinsdale... but was he born there?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Francis McGuire
Name: Francis McGuire
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1857***
Registration District: Scarborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 601
Records on Page:
Name
Eleanor Hood
*****Francis McGuire
*****Catherine Rowley
William Luke Lines Webster

Based on the 1861 census, Catherine, had 2 more Rowley children born after her husband's death and before her 2nd marriage
Daughter Mary Rowley in 1853 and son James Rowley in 1857 both born Scarborough.



1861 England Census about Catherine Maguire
Name: Catherine Maguire
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Francis Maguire
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Scarborough
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Scarborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Scarborough
Sub-registration District: Scarborough
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 184
Piece: 3619
Folio: 67
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Francis Maguire 33 Born United States. British Subject
Catherine Maguire 34
John Roweby 14 Born IRELAND
Mary Roweby 7 Born Scarborough
James Roweby 4 Born Scarborough
( names of children on original is: Rowley)

Catherine and Francis both vanish by 1871 when....
Son John seems to be married to Jane.his place of birth still shows as.. IRELAND

Youngest child James Rowley is working on a fishing vessell
Daughter Mary Rowley aged 18 is in domestic service in Scarborough

Which of Catherine's children do you descend from?

Hello.......I decend from Patrick the first son......as for John the fourth son born Grindale I can send you the records I have