Genealogy Chat

Kucinta...yes that is the death of her husband Andrew...the only thing I find strange is what has happened to the other children could they be from a previous martriage of his getting confused ?

SylviainCanada....thank you so much for all the info x

Beryl ................

not so far as I know

I have my baptism certificate from an English church, and all it says is that I was baptised on such-and-such date. I have it only because it was given to my parents, and they kept it.

It doesn't name my parents or my godparents ................. which doesn't help me tracing my family history!

I think my maternal uncle and his wife were two godparents, but I have no idea as to whether there was a third one (as would be usual in a CofE baptism), or who it might have been. I don't remember either of my parents ever mentioning another godparent. maybe I didn't have one!

Even the Parish Registers, many of which are online, name only the parents, and father's occupation and address. Some vicars added the date of birth as a note in the margin but that was not required.


Jessie probably did go to the Workhouse Infirmary for the birth ......... she was checked into the Workhouse on the day the baby was born, and left about 10 days later. That was the usual time of lying-in at that period.

Kucinta pointed out that the Workhouse Infirmary was the only place where poor or low income people could get medical help.


I think one has to assume that Andrew was the father .................... but it is also possible that he was not.

If a married woman has a baby, the husband is always assumed to be the father unless the woman states otherwise.

Similarly, I think, that if a woman said she was married when she entered the Workhouse, it would assumed that her husband was the father and they would not ask any other questions.

SylvainCanada would there be anyway of getting a baptism certificate?

The baby's baptism was done at the Workhouse ................ the heading says that

"In the case of a Vagrant admitted into the Workhouse who becomes a Mother therein, the word "Vagrant" must be inserted"

London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930

Name: Jessie Gray
Birth Date: abt 1858
Admission Age: 39
Admission Date: 25 Apr 1897
Record Type: Admission
Borough: Islington
Parish or Poor Law Union: Islington
Place: London, England
Title: St John's Road Workhouse Register, 1897

from image:-

Admitted 25 April; baby born 25 April 1897.

Jessie Sr occupation:- Needlewoman
Admitted from Islington
Admitted by the Master

No father named ............ only Jessie Gray


London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930

Name: Female Infant Gray
Birth Date: 25 Apr 1897
Admission Age: 0
Admission Date: 25 Apr 1897
Discharge Date: 15 May 1897
Record Type: Admission and Discharge
Borough: Islington
Parish or Poor Law Union: Islington
Place: London, England
Title: Liverpool Road Workhouse Register, 1896-1898

from image:-

Mother and baby discharged May 15, but it does not say where or who to

Samuel George Wilkinson not Williams was my grandad.

Kucinta how can I save all this info I am pretty new to wll this lol x

Marriage for Jessie? Father is described as John Gray, but he is recorded as deceased, and also as a bedstead maker, as was Andrew Gray.


Name: Jessie Gray
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Age: 21
Spouse: Samuel George Williams
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Oct 1917
Parish: St Silas, Pentonville
Borough: Islington
Father Name: John Gray
Spouse Father: Samuel George Williams
Register Type: Parish Register

Florence married in 1902:

Name: Florence Jessie Gray
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Age: 21
Spouse: John Henry Stockbridge
Spouse Age: 33
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 Oct 1902
Parish: St Peter, Hackney
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Andrew Gray
Spouse Father: William Stockbridge
Register Type: Parish Register

Her father Andrew is recorded as a deceased upholsterer.

I think this is Jessie and Andrew's sons George, and Charles Jesse living with their sister Florence J Gray in census 1901.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
4, Morton Road, Islington, London, England

Florence J Gray Head Single Female 19 1882 Housekeeper (Domestic) Islington, Middlesex, England
George Gray Brother Single Male 17 1884 Greengrocer's Assistant Islington, Middlesex, England<<<<<<<<<<
Charles J Gray Brother - Male 13 1888 - Islington, Middlesex, England<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Now there was no sign of a Florence born c1882 with the family in census 1891, but this baptism seems to tie her in with the family:

Name: Florence Jessie Gray
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 May 1881
Father's name: Andrew Gray
Mother's name: Jessie Gray
Parish or Poor Law Union: Islington St Mary
Borough: Islington
Register Type: Parish Registers

Father a mattress maker. Born 7th Apreil 1881. Address Queens Head Street.

She is baptised the same day as an Albert George Gray, same details recorded, he was born 1st June 1878, and he was listed on the 1891 census with the family as:

Albert G Gray Son - Male 12 1879 Scholar Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England

Thank you so much for all your help Kucinta and MargaretM

HI Beryl, it's only an educated guess based on age and location and assuming she didn't remarry - you'd have to get the cert to be sure it was her and to find out the cause of death.

Yes that seems like the right one does it say what she died from or will I have to get the certificate.

Beryl - she may just have gone into the workhouse to give birth, it doesn't mean she was neccessarily separated from her husband. In those days the workhouse infirmary was often the only place those who could not afford to pay for medical treatment could go for medical assistance at such times.

Or it could be that if Andrew were in poor health for some time before he died, the whole family might have ended up in the workhouse for a bit.

No margaret that is ok thank you x

You asked about Jessie's death as well, if she stayed in the Islington area and didn't remarry, I think this might be her.

Deaths Mar 1937 Gray Jessie 79 Islington 1b 447

She was baptised 11 Oct 1857, so a death aged 79 in the first qtr of 1937 seems a reasonable fit, although it is a common name.

Yes Kucinta I think you are correct my grandmother Jessie said her father died when she was a baby....just been going through some papers and it looks like she was norn in the workhouse in St Johns Way London N19 so perhaps her parents had parted who knows she never spoke about her past but I always had the impression that she had a sad life as a child.

I think I should go back and delete what I posted re: the wrong family. Anybody have any objections?

Do you have this? Jessie a widow withe daughter Jessie and mother Sarah a widow.

Jessie Gray

in the 1911 England Census
Record Image View

View Map

Name: Jessie Gray
Age in 1911: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Islington
Civil Parish: Islington
Search Photos: Search for 'Islington' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 31 Blundell Street, Islington N
Occupation: SCHOOL
Registration district: Islington
Registration District Number: 10
Sub-registration district: Lower Holloway
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 850
Household Members:
Name Age
Jessie Gray 50
Jessie Gray 13
Sarah Charles 78