Genealogy Chat

Britishnewspapers has the notice of marriage,,


1882 on the 6th April at the Parish Church to Elizabeth youngest daughter of Herr Schmidt.

Western Daily Press and his name also appears in the Western Courier,

My theory ............. they went off and got married, but she hadn't got parental permission, and then parents insisted she was too young.

It will be interesting to see what the certificate actually says!

I wonder if they then got the first marriage "annulled" or whatever can be done in that case.

Is it considered legal if she was underage and married without parental permission AND the parents then complained?

I agree Sylvia - that's why I added the edit but I though I would leave the rest there just for general info. It was certainly a tradition I did not know about.

Plus Elizabeth was the only member of either family that had 2 marriage registrations.

Lancashire Ann .....

the second marriage took place in Church of England in Lydney, so I don't think the Jewish theory holds in this case

I don't know if this is a reasonable explanation but the name Jacob Schmitt sounds Jewish. (hope I am not stereotyping her).

I am not familiar with Jewish customs but reading a bit on google there seems to be 2 ceremonies. One which is a 'betrothal' at a young age after which the bride and groom live at home as single people but they are considered legally 'married' and a later marriage - possibly 1 or 2 years later after which they live as man & wife.

Someone will probably know definitely but would a registrar have been present on both occasions?



edit - just re-reading what Sylvia has found the baptism of Elizabeth took place ina Baptist church so probably not the above explanation. Interesting though.

so according to this, Elizabeth was born in 1859

from ancestry

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: Elizabeth Schmidt
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 4 Jan 1863
Baptism Place: Newtown United Methodist, Bristol, Gloucester, England
Father: Jacob Schmidt
Mother: Esther
FHL Film Number: 1565233 IT 17-18



according to this record, she was 4 weeks old when baptised

England & Wales, Christening Index, 1530-1980

Name: Elizabeth Schmidt
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1862
Christening Date: 4 Jan 1863
Christening Place: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Christening Age: 4w
Father: Jacob Schmidt
Mother: Esther


I can't look at the image of the first record (it isn't available) ......... but I guess that what must have happened is that the transcriber of that record misread 4 wk as 4 yr.

There is only 1 birth registration for an Elizabeth Schmidt in Gloucestershire between 1855 and 1865 .........

Births Mar 1863 (>99%)
SCHMIDT Elizabeth Clifton 6a 112

Tks SylviainCanada and safc for the further info especially as to his reason of death.
Will be sending for both marriage certs to try and find further info.

Once again tks for you input.

A tree on Ancestry shows his marriage in 1880, Bristol but the same tree shows him on the 1881 census as single and living with his parents.

from FMP


DISTRICT NEWS.
DISTRICT NEWS.
renovation turd, realised £7 7d. STROUD. Death of Stbocd Dentist —Mr R. H. Smith held an inquest Pa;low the bodv of Thomas Lay Fairweather, wbos-s body was found the Gloucester and Berkeley Ship Canal on Sunday afternoon. Mr W. B. Arnold, of Gloucester
10 October 1901 - Western Daily Press - Bristol, B


from image:-

He was in a boat on the water and having trouble raising the sail. About an hour after someone saw that, the stern of the boat was seen to be sticking up out of the water. Thomas Fairweather's body was found in 16' of water

Thomas had recently bought the boat, was not experienced and was unable to swim

Verdict:- Accidentally drowned.

http://eastanglianancestors.co.uk/fam9455.html

snap, safc :-)

Ah


she's on the 1881 census as LIZZIE, single and living with her parents!

1881 Census

Name: Lizzi Schmidt
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Jacob Schmidt
Mother: Esther Schmidt
Gender: Female
Where born: Bristol
Civil Parish: Clifton
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address: 1 Regent St

Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Barton Regis
ED, institution, or vessel: 1

Piece: 2479
Folio: 20
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Jacob Schmidt 49
Esther Schmidt 45
Alice Powell 25
Lizzi Schmidt 18



so there was something wrong with the first marriage.

BIRTHS, MARPJAGES, DEATHS. St, 12, wife G Hole, son. **• MARRIAGE. F^w^THTrs— ScwitxDT.-Apra 6. the Parish Church Thomas Lay Fairweather. Stroud. " youngest daughter Herr Schmidt, law CliftonT^ „*¦ Wulmott
08 April 1882 - Western Daily Press - Bristol, Bristol, England


Doc True

DEATHS.
DEATHS.
Street, who died Oct. 7, 1903, aged 24. Gone, but not forgotten. PAIEWEATHEB.—In ever loving memory only brother. Thomas Lay Fairweather, of I.ansdcwn, Stroud, who was accidentally drowned Oct. 6, 1901. WILLIAMS.—In loving memory my dear mother, Sarah
07 October 1904 - Western Daily Press - Bristol, Bristol, England


Doc True

DEATHS.
DEATHS.
Oct. 5, 1902. Ever remembered by his two sons, George and Will. F-VIEWEATHZR.—In ever loving memory dear brother, Thomas Lay Fair-weather, of Laosdown. Stroud, whom God called away suddenly Oct. 6. 1901. HILL.—In loving memory of my dear father. He try
05 October 1905 - Western Daily Press - Bristol, Bristol, England


Doc True

STROUD TO-DAY.
STROUD TO-DAY.
3s. 6d. costs and the Bench hoped it would be warning to him. of Mr. T. L. Fairweather.—The remains of the late Mr. Thomas Lay Fairweather. of Lnnsdov.n, who was drowned in the Gloucester and .Berkeley Canal on Sunday last, were interred in Stroud Cemetery
12 October 1901 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England


Doc True

DISTRICT NEWS.
DISTRICT NEWS.
renovation turd, realised £7 7d. STROUD. Death of Stbocd Dentist —Mr R. H. Smith held an inquest Pa;low the bodv of Thomas Lay Fairweather, wbos-s body was found the Gloucester and Berkeley Ship Canal on Sunday afternoon. Mr W. B. Arnold, of Gloucester
10 October 1901 - Western Daily Press - Bristol, Bristol, England

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1, Regent Street, Clifton, Barton Regis, Gloucestershire, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Jacob Schmidt Head Married Male 49 1832 Photographer Germany
Transcription
Esther Schmidt Wife Married Female 45 1836 - Goole, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Alice Powell Daughter Married Female 25 1856 House Keeper Goole, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
Lizzi Schmidt Daughter Single Female 18 1863 Scholar Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

this looks like Elizabeth in 1871

1871 Census

Name: Elizabeth Schmidt
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Jacob Schmidt
Mother's name: Esther Schmidt
Gender: Female
Where born: Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish: Horfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Bishopston
Town: Horfield
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Clifton
Sub-registration district: Ashley
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2550
Folio: 11
Page Number: 13

Jacob Schmidt 39 b.ca 1832, Naslan, Germany, Photographer
Esther Schmidt 34 b.ca 1837, Goole, Yorkshire
William Schmidt 17
Alice Schmidt 15
Thomas W Schmidt 13
Sarah Schmidt 11
Jacob Schmidt 10
Elizabeth Schmidt 8

Address:- Egerton Road


I haven't yet found her in 1881

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Lansdown, Stroud, Gloucestershire, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thos H Fairweather Head Married Male 31 1860 Dental Surgeon Haverhill, Suffolk, England
Transcription
Elizth Fairweather Wife Married Female 28 1863 - Bristol
Transcription
Winifred Fairweather Daughter Single Female 7 1884 - Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Nellie Fairweather Daughter Single Female 4 1887 - Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Elsie Fairweather Daughter Single Female 8 1883 - Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Ada Davis Servant Single Female 16 1875 Housemaid Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Transcription
Fanny Bishop Servant Single Female 18 1873 General Servant Gloucestershire, England

This seems to be him in 1881, not married. He's a dentist, same as on marriage record.


Thomas Fairweather

in the 1881 England Census
Record Image View

View blank form

Name: Thomas Fairweather
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship to Head: Son
Parent: Mitchell Fairweather
Gender: Male
Where born: Haverhill, Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: Bristol St James and St Paul Out
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address: Cromwell Rd "Hadelock Villa"
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Dentist
Registration district: Barton Regis
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2485
Folio: 109
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Mitchell Fairweather 54
Thomas Fairweather 21
Emily Fairweather 13
Edward Sparkling 21

The second marriage must have had to take place because there was something wrong with that first marriage.


I think you have to buy the first marriage certificate to find out.

If she really was 19 in 1882, then she could have been 16 or 17 when they married in 1880 ....... legal with parental or guardian permission, but not without that.

According to the 1881 census, Robert Medway married Emily :-)

1881 Census

Name: Robert Medway
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Emily Medway
Gender: Male
Where born: N K, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Bristol St James In
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address: 2 Marlborough St
Marital Status: Married

Occupation: French Polisher
Registration district: Bristol
ED, institution, or vessel: 12

Piece: 2475
Folio: 38
Page Number: 2

Robert Medway 25
Emily Medway 25



which still leaves Thomas and Elizabeth marrying

Hi SylviainCnada

Tks for your reply. 1883 was a typo it should have been 1882.
Have the details you have stated but if its just a matter of registration why would banns be posted again in 1882 if the first marriage took place in 1880.