|
Potty - you can query my statement that the GRO entry is a copy of the local register, but you'll find it's accurate, at least pre-1969q2, when things changed somewhat.
I also think long form b.certs were not given to the informant, only sold.
Short-form b.certs might have been given out -I'm not very familiar with them, but I don't think they include any informant info.
The GRO published and annotated an example of each type of GRO BMD.cert.
http://tinyurl.com/lrk36xp
It's clear to me the informant signature is in the same hand as the body of the cert.
Incidentally, the certication on a GRO b.cert reads:
CERTIFIED to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of the Register of Births in the District above mentioned. (2015)
and that on a local b.cert reads:
Certified to be a true copy of a register in my custody (2008)
or
I, ________, Registrarof Births and Deaths for the Sub-District of ________ in the _____________
do hereby certify that this is a true copy of Entry No. ___ in the Register Book of Births for the said Sub-District, and such Register Book is now legally in my custody. (1943)
which makes it clear who holds the original rego's.
Most local offices lack the technology to put a scanned image of a rego entry onto the certificate form, so local B's & D's are mostly transcribed copies. The only exception I know of is Birmingham RD.
|
|
mgnv
I would query your statement that the GRO entry is a copy of the local register. When a birth is registered, it is entered in triplicate by the Registrar: the local register, one for the GRO and the 3rd given to the person registering the birth. This is what happened when I registered my twin's births. The Registrar (who visited the hospital) was rather annoyed that both had three names and sent me away to have my lunch why he filled out all three entries. It is possible that sometimes an error could be made on one of the entries but as all three are signed by the informant unlikely unless the informant was illiterate .
Also, not all entries with no MMN are for illegitimate births. I thought so at first, but then found several that were not - all for the same Registration district and in the same period. This is my great grandfather's entry from the GRO:
LAMPORT, GEORGE - Order
GRO Reference: 1841 M Quarter in FARNHAM Volume 04 Page 136
I have his birth cert and the MMN is on it.
One thing I would like to know is what "Occasional Copy:A" means. I have this against one entry and have seen it against others that have been posted on here.
|
|
AustinQ - My guess is your pdf is a scan of the GRO's copy of the original register. The original register is held at the local office that holds all the rego's for that subdistrict, as well as the original registrar's marr rego's, plus the local copies of church rego's.
The new GRO index leaves surnames blank on illegitimate births where there is np father listed. E.g.,
Baptism: 30 Nov 1879 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Ellen Benson - [Child] of Kate Benson
Abode: Standish
Baptised by: R. Duncan Curate
Register: Baptisms 1879 - 1885, Page 1, Entry 3
Source: LDS Film 1526140
Baptism: 14 Dec 1879 St Wilfrid, Standish, Lancashire, England
John Thomas Sutton - [Child] of Ann Sutton
Abode: Shevington
Baptised by: R. Duncan Curate
Register: Baptisms 1879 - 1885, Page 1, Entry 4
Source: LDS Film 1526140
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
BENSON Elizabeth Ellen BENSON Standish Wigan & Leigh STND/21/491
SUTTON John Thomas SUTTON Standish Wigan & Leigh STND/21/434
1912 ACKERS Eric Clarkson ACKERS Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/183/30
Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
Benson Elizabeth Ellen Wigan 8c 7
Sutton John Thomas Wigan 8c 2
BENSON, ELIZABETH ELLEN - Order
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 7
SUTTON, JOHN THOMAS - Order
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 2
Oddly enough, this happens even post 1911q2
Baptism: 29 Feb 1912 Christ Church, Ince, Lancs.
Eric Clarkson Ackers - [Child] of Alice Mary Gladys Ackers
Born: 19 Jan 1912
Abode: 232 Ince Green Lane
Baptised by: R. Whitehead
Register: Baptisms 1905 - 1915, Page 207, Entry 1653
Source: Original Register at Wigan Archives
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1912
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
ACKERS Eric Clarkson ACKERS Hindley Wigan & Leigh HNDL/183/30
Births Mar 1912 (>99%)
Ackers Eric C Ackers Wigan 8c 182
ACKERS, ERIC CLARKSON - Order
GRO Reference: 1912 M Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 182
------------------------
This omission of surnames doesn't deal with all illegitimate births, e.g.:
Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
HARGREAVES William Kendal 10b 1143
>> Hesmondhalgh Mary Ann Kendal 10b 1143
>> Logan George Harold Kendal 10b 1143
WRIGHT Jane Kendal 10b 1143
Births Jun 1874 (>99%)
Logan Margaret Agnes Kendal 10b 716
Deaths Jun 1876 (>99%)
Logan Margaret Agnes 1 Kendal 10b 420
Deaths Sep 1878 (>99%)
Logan George Harold 23 Kendal 10b 411
Births Jun 1880 (>99%)
LOGAN James Edmund Kendal 10b 750
Births Jun 1882 (>99%)
Logan Edith Lewis Kendal 10b 723
LOGAN, MARGARET AGNES HESMONDHALGH Order
GRO Reference: 1874 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 716
LOGAN, JAMES EDMUND HESMONDHALGH Order
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 750
LOGAN, EDITH LEWIS - Order
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 723
The 3 GRO index lookups have the same form, but only Margret Agnes was legitimate; the latter two were illegitimate biths to the widow Logan.
As a footnote, James Edmund Logan was my dad's stepfather.
---------------------
About 3% of English marrs are between 1st cousins. and over a quarter of first cousins will share their common granpa's surname, so marrs between couples with the same last name, although not common, are not really rare.
I don't know if the following couple are related:
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1868
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GILL John GILL Jane Anne Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW/27/54
1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27G-3X1M
John Gill Head M 34 Whitchurch, Devon, England
Jane A Gill Wife F 32 Buckland Monachora, Devon, England
Emily Jane Gill Daughter F 10 Wigan, Lancashire, England
Mary Elizabeth Gill Daughter F 8 Wigan, Lancashire, England
Noah Gill Son M 6 Wigan, Lancashire, England
G J Gill Daughter F 4 Wigan, Lancashire, England
Charles Gill Son M 2 Wigan, Lancashire, England
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
1870 GILL Emeley Jane GILL Pemberton Wigan & Leigh PEM/27/388
1872 GILL Mary Elizabeth GILL Pemberton Wigan & Leigh PEM/30/343
1874 GILL Noah GILL Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/110/8
1876 GILL Georgina GILL Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/118/38
1878 GILL Charles GILL Wigan Wigan & Leigh WIG/126/457
Births Sep 1870 (>99%)
GILL Emeley Jane Wigan 8c 95
GILL, EMELEY JANE GILL Order
GRO Reference: 1870 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 95
Births Dec 1872 (>99%)
GILL Mary Elizabeth Wigan 8c 117
GILL, MARY ELIZABETH GILL Order
GRO Reference: 1872 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 117
Births Sep 1874 (>99%)
Gill Noah Wigan 8c 60
GILL, NOAH GILL Order
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 60
Births Sep 1876 (>99%)
GILL Georgina Wigan 8c 54
GILL, GEORGINA GILL Order
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 54
Births Dec 1878 (>99%)
Gill Charles Wigan 8c 30
GILL, CHARLES GILL Order
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 30
=========================
Thru 1910q2, the printed GRO index typically included one mid-name in full.
In 1910q3, they started giving just one forename, with just initials for the mid-names.
The new online index gives all the names in full, thru 1915. E.g.,
Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
Baldwin Winifred Y Thirlaway Newcastle T. 10b 289
BALDWIN, WINIFRED YOUNGER THIRLAWAY Order
GRO Reference: 1912 J Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 289
This was my aunt, and I knew she was named after her gran, so I knew the Y-name beforehand in this case,
|
|
I have just received my fathers birth certificate 1857 I must have ordered and got about six different certificates. The place shown of his birth on census was Paddington but other children born Islington, St Luke's but found due to mothers maiden name which I knew he was born Marylebone New church Street, his father was a omnibus conductor so I am a happy person.
|
|
Just received my PDF certificate via email!
Looks to be a scanned copy of the original certificate- very pleased :-D
|
|
Yes- just bought PDF certificate £6.00.
Will be sent by e-mail, estimated delivery 16th November. Will let you know more when it arrives.
|
|
Bumping this up to remind people that today is the start of the trial for ordering PDFs for £6. Anybody done this yet?
Have noticed that some birth entries do not have MMN. Assumed at first that this was for illegitimate births but have found quite a lot for the Farnham district that do not have MMN for births that I know weren't illegitimate. So, shouldn't have assumed!
|
|
Logged on today to see this - one way to cut down the rush for cheap copies as per lost cousins link given above 5th Nov. at 1407
Essential Maintenance & New functionality available
The website will be unavailable on Wednesday 9th November 2016 between 07:30 and 08:30 for essential maintenance to take place.
We apologise to customers for any inconvenience caused.
etc
|
|
Having married in 1856, I've found out that one set of Gt Gt Grandparents had 2 babies born and died same quarter - their first 2 within 2 years - and then their 4th and 7th died too. All between census! So 14 children, not 10 and they outlived a further 4.
|
|
I FOUND MY ANCESTOR's death
within 2 minutes......
Moxx
Syls-the bumph and the obvious <3
|
|
The only snag that I have found is that Deaths seem unable to distinguish between months and years ........ the new images only show the age by a number
so a baby who dies at 6 months old (shown on the certificate) and a child who dies at age 6 years will both show on the new image as 6 ...................
it becomes important when finding children born and died between censuses.
Plus ................ mmn is NOT shown on every image of a birth registration.
I found a lot of mine without mmn, so was still unsure of whether I had the correct children, especially in families that all used the same forenames, over and over again.
|
|
It works! :-D
But if only OH's 4x gr grandmother had managed to go on having children for another 4/5 years I might have found out her surname. It wasn't on her death certificate as it was one of illiterate sons that notified the death. :-(
|
|
According to Lost Cousins newsletter, there will be the option to buy digitalised copies for £6 from 9 Nov. Only a limited number of purchases will be available within the trial period.
.......
The trial will last for only 3 weeks, but may close earlier (only 45,000 PDFs will be made available at this price). My guess is that those 45,000 PDFs will be sold very, very quickly -
Births: 1837 to 1934
Deaths: 1837 to 1957
http://lostcousins.com/newsletters2/specialnov16news.htm#PDFtrial
|
|
:-D
Perhaps we should keep quiet about it!
|
|
It certainly does help fill in the blanks!
I can see I'll have to block out a few hours and hopefully find possible deaths for my John and Ann WEST between 1851 and 1861.
A freebie from the government! Whatever are they thinking?? :-S
Maureen
|
|
Maureen, I can't tell you just how helpful the new search has been. I've just discovered my Gran had another two children- sadly both died and didn't appear on any census, but it helps to build a fuller picture of what her life must have been like- and I can order the certificates without guessing which are correct.
|
|
No Malyon- it's free!!
You just need to register with a valid e-mail address. If you've ordered from the GRO before you'll probably be in the system and you just need to validate your email.
|
|
do you have to pay to use that site
|
