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The British Newspaper Archive

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Muffyxx Report 14 Jun 2008 00:15

Well said Robert.

Laws that have been in place for centuries and have worked perfectly well have been repelled........for what? To prove a point IMO.

Today terrorism.......tomorrow for daring to disagree with the establishment?

Ok maybe not.........but what IF it is?

I don't want to live like that. Especially as up til now there is not ONE case where the current limit has needed to be extended !!!!!!!! xx


BigBadWolf Report 14 Jun 2008 00:01

People like to believe that the principles of the Magna Carta are still enshrined in British law. Have a quick read of the recently-enacted "Regulatory and Legislative Reform Bill"; Magna Carta has been trampled into the dust; that centuries-old document now hangs in the PM's toilet for him to use when he runs out of Andrex. Habeus Corpus is now a defunct Latin phrase.

For those who support the idea of detention for any length of time without charge, ask yourself: what are the criteria for being suspected of being a terrorist? Remember, an OAP was held under then-existing terrorist laws for heckling a government minister; the laws are now even more draconian; local councils are using them to investigate what you are throwing away: what do you think you discard that could give them cause to suspect you are a terrorist, and have you detained for 6 weeks? All that weedkiller you used? Or those plastic drinks bottles? How about those paint tins you are eventually clearing out?

Of course, there could eventually be other, more sinister reasons for suspecting you to be a terrorist; perhaps you do not agree with what your local council plans for your neighbourhood; perhaps you are resisting joining the Party. The politicians have been given powers that many despots of the past (as well as the present) would dream of. So many of the liberties that we have taken for granted over centuries are being chipped slowly away; like many examples of erosion, you are refusing to see it until your house tumbles over the cliff.

Teddys Girl

Teddys Girl Report 13 Jun 2008 10:40

Agree re Socialist/Communist state like old USSR. and the KGB.

Most of those in the Government had a grounding in this way of life in their Universities. Otherwise 'Pinkos'.

Think years ago, Burgess and Maclean, et al.

I was in a Secondary Modern School in the late 1940's, and our teachers were the same, Trying to indoctrinate us with how wonderful Russia was. The Collective Farming etc.

Was I glad that I could think for myself, and realised I wanted to be an individual and not toeing the line of a Nanny State.

So I agree with all that is said.

Pat Kendrick

Pat Kendrick Report 13 Jun 2008 08:34

I would like to add this has been a great debate with everyone giving their opinion without any abuse. What this board is meant to be. Well done everyone.

Pat Kendrick

Pat Kendrick Report 13 Jun 2008 08:31

Soon be a Socialist/Communist state like the old USSR, all we need now is the KGB or do we already have it?

Staffs Col

Staffs Col Report 13 Jun 2008 08:22

1 CCTV camera for every 14 citizens

National ID card scheme for everyone over the age of 16 containing boimetrics including fingerprints by 2012

DNA Databse whjich contains samples from over a million innocent people never charged with a crime

Crackdown on peaceful protests, including people arrested for reading a list of the Iraq war dead and eating a cake with 'Peace' written on it

42 days detention looming which is 5 days longer than legally allowed in communist China

Police officers being 'electronically tagged' to show where they are

Refuse bins microchipped so that refuse can be traced to a specific property

the list goes on and is very worrying

Pat Kendrick

Pat Kendrick Report 13 Jun 2008 08:14

I think the 42 day period is wrong. Surely the police would have been following the suspects for some time and collecting evidence before an arrest.therefore they would have gained enough evidence to charge the suspect and for him/her to appear before the magistrates court. They would then have time before it went to Crown Court to collect further evidence.
28 days without charge is long enough as if in that time they have not collected enough evidence to charge the person a further two more weeks may still not produce it.

What about the law re Habeas Corpus quote
"Everyone has a right to habeas corpus and that will remain the case"
Home Office spokesman
I think this law is in the Magna Carta and possibly predates this.

Just my opinion I have nothing to hide but have watched gradually civil liberties being removed. trouble is everyone now is so scared re terrorism that we go for any option to curtail it.


Onwe Report 13 Jun 2008 00:04

Robert, you seem well informed and very passionate about this topic.

I worked along time ago with id cards and stuff but never felt the system was being abused.

Having said that because terrorism is quite popular at the moment, govern bodies are have a knee jerk reaction. The laws will settle down in time.

The governing powers used to burn witches and religous people for their actions and beliefs. It may have taken 200 years but has settled down.

I must add people like David Wilks (australian) he was fighting for another country against his own "diggers" and he is welcomed back and freely walking around. That I dont understand.

To contradict myself, Guantamano Bay residents, they should have been tried ages ago. Being kept in detention for 5 years, they must have evidence now to convict.


BigBadWolf Report 12 Jun 2008 22:48

Fair point, Sparrow - but I am not obliged to have a driving licence or credit cards, or to carry them. Neither do they contain the intimate details that are planned to go on the ID cards. If ID cards are just for identification, why not just have everyone register their iris or retina scans? These cannot be "forgotten", and, if "mislaid", the unfortunate individual will be registered elsewhere.

While not a legal-beagle, I can think of no instance where detention without charge could be right; if the police are suspicious of you engaged in terrorist activities, I am sure that they can arrest you "on suspicion", and they can extend their holding of you for a considerable time. There are anti-terrorist laws aplenty already; how can you justify being held without charge or evidence? In what circumstance will they hold you under this law? Because you heckled a government minister? Or because you are using the wrong bin? How about terrorising an entire village for many months just because of a firm engaged in legal, if contentious, business? This government now has powers that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Mugabe would have dreamed of - and all we seem to do is roll onto our backs and beg to have our tummies tickled! We should be very, very afraid of the monster that is gestating in this country's very heart.

David Davis may have acted in principle, but I am not sure that his actions are practical; surely he could think of a more effective way to make his point.


Onwe Report 12 Jun 2008 22:36

"Jazz Hands" good luck. My OH quit cold turkey. But he was working away at the time. Nagging wife and 2 kids, may not have been successful


Muffyxx Report 12 Jun 2008 22:33

Good luck with the giving up. I've done that a time or two.

I've reduced costs by smoking roll ups lol xx


pablo1513 Report 12 Jun 2008 22:31

Have tried a few times without success.
Last time was at the begining of April going alright til Father taken seriously ill in hospital and passed away very quickly.
Stress levels major increase nicotine input increased to cope.
Am starting at an NHS stop smoking clinic Next week

Wish me luck I really want to stop this time, am fed up of having no money


Onwe Report 12 Jun 2008 22:27

I have had to give up nagging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Onwe Report 12 Jun 2008 22:26

Will you give up?


pablo1513 Report 12 Jun 2008 22:25

just to push it back up the board Nudge it upwards.

Not allowed to smoke in public building here either but outside is ok


Onwe Report 12 Jun 2008 22:22

Firstly what does "n" mean in a thread.

Never actually smoked. But having children it bothers me when. though the anti smoking rules here especially in pubs and clubs. You have to smoke outside on the path.


pablo1513 Report 12 Jun 2008 22:19



pablo1513 Report 12 Jun 2008 21:50

Hi Sparrow,
I am a smoker and do not really want to get involved in that debate at the moment,.. But do you Drive a vehicle of some sort what about the "killer fumes " that they exude.

I do not smoke in the vicinity of children if I can help it and I will not light up if I am visiting other peoples properties if they do no smoke....So I class myself as a "Considerate smoker" if such a person exists.

But as I have said I dont want to get on to that subject



Onwe Report 12 Jun 2008 21:45

pablo1513 Here ins aussie smoking is already banned in public in the vicinity of children due you think thats wrong.


Muffyxx Report 12 Jun 2008 21:43

lmao. You're probably right there Pablo xx