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Interesting man, lol that's not a phrase

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Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 Nov 2012 10:36

I say ( or think) that often, but just caught part of an interview with an Israeli journalist Gideon Levy on tv speaking about Gaza, and was struck by what he was saying, his 'presence' ( and the name Gideon lol being a big fan of Criminal Minds). Google threw up an article which might be of interest if anyone saw the interview or indeed is watching the situation worsen.


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 18 Nov 2012 11:19

Like you, I caught part of the interview on BBC News 24, and couldn’t understand why (as I thought) a BBC journalist was so impassioned. Thank you for providing the link.

If I had to take sides, it would be leaning towards Israel, but on this occasion they are likely to loose all creditability. The majority of people will have condemned the WW2 Jewish ghettoes in Europe. The Israelis have created one in Gaza, all be it initially voluntarily as the Palestinian Arabs refused to live under a Jewish mandate.

During a previous bombardment, the Israelis claimed that Palestinian fighters were placing their rocket launchers in civilian’s back yards. By the time the Israelis returned fire, the Launchers had been moved meaning that the only casualties were the innocent civilians.

With a build up of surface military vehicles on the border, things don’t look hopeful. Israeli Hawkers won’t be satisfied until there is a complete annihilation of a Military threat.

There have been rumours that the Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, is trying to broker a cease fire; this has not been confirmed.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 Nov 2012 11:29

DET it's such a complicated situation, and one I know little of to be honest, to my shame. I've always been 'pro--Israel' as such, but it does seem that a real shift of approach has to be taken by Israel on this if they are ever to have anything close to a resolution....I think it is one of those times when 'keeping your enemy closer' (and that phrase used 'winnimg hearts and minds') would be better than driving them into extremism.


SheilaWestWilts Report 18 Nov 2012 11:50

Rose - you may find this useful

Is it biased? Well, from what I know from people who have lived and worked in Jerusalem, no. I could say more, but do not wish to offend <3

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 Nov 2012 12:23

Sheila, thanks for that it looks an interesting site, the maps are especially useful and the 'bare bones' history....not entirely sure of the article I'm reading on there, smacks a bit of the old 'Zionist conspiracy' theorists? But will read up on 'both sides'.

I suppose the bottom line for me is that it seems so much worse that in the light of the Holocaust, anyone Jewish should be in favour of 'segregation' or depriving others of property and the right to live 'freely'.

Though I wonder how many secular Israelis are in favour of military actions in relation to 'religious Israelis' ( or vice versa) ? Bit of a heavy topic for the boards perhaps.


SheilaWestWilts Report 18 Nov 2012 13:05

Yes, you're right Rose - it's a very old, complex problem with many, many facets and it's hard to find completely unbiased articles!


JustJohn Report 18 Nov 2012 13:26

Both the Jews and the Arabs are wanderers. Always have been. Do you remember the WDYTYA programme with Julia Sawalha. It was only 2 generations ago that her Arab ancestors had any fixed place to live.

And the fathers of Judaism (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) were wanderers. The Jews are the "wandering race of God" to quote a hymn regularly sung.

So why are both sides arguing about land? 2000 years ago, the Jews who lived round Jerusalem were part of the Roman Empire. They were slaves. But they kept their synagogues, their religion, their way of life.

United Nations and chocolate fireguard. Which is more effective at keeping heat and fire at bay? Discuss.


Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 18 Nov 2012 13:39

John "So why are both sides arguing about land? "

'Sides' always argue about land! The Irish in me cannot forget that one ;-)


Merlin Report 18 Nov 2012 13:56

The Jewish people are but one of the twelve tribes of Israel,they were intended to wander the world because of the Crusifixion of Jesus. However Hamas are the problem,there are lots of Palestinians who wish to live in peace with Israel,but Hamas in conjunction with Iran wish to wipe them off the face of the world.If the same happened here to us I think we would retaliate the same way as Israel,defend our people and our land and way of life.**M**.


JustJohn Report 18 Nov 2012 15:11

Merlin You sound like Captain Mainwaring :-D

What I find so sad is that most people are reasonable and want to live with the "other side" in harmony. At time of 9/11 I was running a series of courses for an Islamic study centre in Leicester. They had a tutor that taught them about Christians and I told them I was a committed Christian and was it ok for me to teach (it was health and safety).

They were so nice to me and I loved to stay behind and discuss religion with them. And we never fell out, and actually found an enormous amount of common ground (sic).

But there have always been zealots on fringes of all religions who want to spoil any friendships.

Just after these courses, we had 9/11. And I must admit I deliberately lost contact with my friends in Leicester. I just did not want to discuss extremism with them, and I thought they were tainted with the blood of all those innocent victims. It took years to get back to a position where I again believed that Muslims were overwhelmingly good, law-abiding and peaceful neighbours :-(


JustJohn Report 18 Nov 2012 22:49

Rose Ireland has been a thorn in our side for so many years. Bombings in Birmingham, in Manchester and all the tragedy in the north of Ireland.

Yet all through that, individual Catholics and Protestants got on great. And still do. I just feel in all these conflicts that we should try to keep listening and talking to the "other side". All of us. And use humour, if appropriate.

I have liked so many people in my life from different nations - though am not too happy at moment about Argentinans and Samoans (but that might just be temporary because of the rugby) ;-)


SueMaid Report 18 Nov 2012 22:59

My father was in the Palestinian campaign at the end of WW2. His sympathies were firmly with the Palestinians. Listening and reading many discussions, reports and informed articles has led me to the same conclusion. My father always said that things would never change and I don't think they will.


~Lynda~ Report 18 Nov 2012 23:17

Sue, father in law was in the Palestinian campaign, and he was of the same opinion as your dad.


JustJohn Report 19 Nov 2012 19:39

Just heard that Welsh international footballer Rob Earnshaw now plays for Tel Aviv and is living in the midst of this hell. And the daughter of a friend works and lives in Jerusalem. Brings it all a bit too close to home :-( :-( :-(

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 19 Nov 2012 19:57

John "Ireland has been a thorn in our side......" :-| :-0 , I can't say I would have put it like that ! but it's all a matter of perspective of course ............ my point was that I can see a certain resonance between the two situations: Ireland/ England...Israel/Palestine)

Israeli indifference to the plight of the Palestinians who are suffering deprivation on a daily basis while the people who have taken their land are 'doing nicely thankyou' drives the extremism that threatens the lives of all in the region. Memories are long, and unless an entente can be brokered between opposing parties, the long memories will prompt many decades more of conflict.


JustJohn Report 19 Nov 2012 20:09

Gladstone provided a resolution for Ireland back in 1880's, I believe. I wonder why that was never implemented. I have spent almost all my adult life being continually shocked at man's inhumanity to man in Ulster/North of Ireland.

And they are arguing about things that happened hundreds of years before they were born. I have a long memory, but I don't any more get wound up about the Civil War.

Eventually, it will be an all-Ireland solution as proposed by Gladstone all those years ago. An all-Ireland that protects the rights of the Protestant minorities on the island.