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Please read this but then read the comments!

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


MrDaff Report 5 Jan 2013 13:45

I go along with Cynthia and Tec, especially having some 'second-hand knowledge' regarding autism in children and young adults.

As for the IQ test, this does not measure social skills.

From the math, this lad, with an IQ of 58, has a mental age of a 7 yo.

Frankly, I know a number of 7 yo's who know the difference between right and wrong etc. Thus the problem must lie elsewhere, and referral to a Special Needs school would seem to be beckoning, imo.


supercrutch Report 5 Jan 2013 10:37

Thanks for replies, I am still mulling it over :-(


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 5 Jan 2013 10:29

While discussing similar apparently ‘Feral’ children, our views swayed between “They should be locked up and the key thrown away” to “What are ‘we’ doing to our children that locking them up seems the only way to go?”

With this case, it highlights the deficiency of the care/penal system where there is apparently no secure place where the child can have a suitable school education as well as treatment in the form of moral guidance and diagnosis to see if a low IQ is his only ‘problem’.

Had he been an adult, he could have been referred to a forensic psychiatric unit within the NHS by a Court Ordered Section. Many in such places have been referred as it was decided that they were ‘unfit to plead’ because of their low IQ. They were then further diagnosed as having another condition (such as the Autism as Cynthia suggests) or a psychotic disorder.

CAMHS (Child and Adolescent mental health service) is another Cinderella service which for years has had to fight for funding.


Cynthia Report 5 Jan 2013 10:04

I've just had a look at the article and some of the comments Supercrutch.

Whilst some of the comments have been well thought out, others simply show the mentality of the people posting such horrid things. That, in itself, is a cause for concern I feel.

A recent conversation has crossed my mind.

I have a friend who is Head of something or other in a prison for young offenders. One day, she was asking me about my daughter's Asperger's Syndrome and autism in general. We chatted and I advised her to look at the National Autistic Society's website.

She emailed me back to say she was astounded. When she read some of the classic 'signs and symptoms' of autism, she realised that many of their youngsters were exhibiting some of the symptoms.

Another person working alongside youngsters in another prison, recently told one of our local MPs that she thought the incidence of autism within young offenders prisons was very high. He is extremely interested in this and hopes to take it further.

Apparently, when youngsters are admitted to prison, they are assessed for learning difficulties only, autism has never been considered.

The sad thing is, many 'professionals' have little understanding of the condition which, in certain cases, can exhibit signs of aggression, lack of communication skills, no social understanding, frustration and sheer awkwardness.

You often find that those with the condition deny any wrong doing - even if you have seen them commit that wrong. They often don't think they are doing something 'wrong' as they may not be able to differentiate between the two.

These folk can be very vulnerable and at the mercy of the unscrupulous. They can be led astray simply because they are lonely and want to be accepted by their peers. The consequences of their actions may not occur to them.

They may react badly in certain situations such as police stations, courts etc., due to sensory/tactile issues.

There are youngsters who are running wild simply because their parents do not realise they are on the autistic spectrum and who cannot handle their behaviour.

Whilst things are slowly improving, some doctors are reluctant to send children for assessment.

It is known that, whilst some teachers are very quick to pick up the signs of possible autism, others are extremely ignorant and the child is labelled a trouble maker or worse and almost 'cast to one side'.

As a result of our conversation, my friend is now in touch with the NAS who are, at present, working on the subject of how autism is dealt with within the judicial system.

I am not saying that this young lad is on the autistic spectrum - what I AM saying is that he should, at least, be assessed before being condemned.

He can be punished till kingdom come, but it doesn't necessarily mean he will learn from it as he may not have the capacity to understand what he has done wrong.


Muffyxx Report 5 Jan 2013 01:41

The way I read the article was that the failure to punish the child just made him commit worse and worst crimes.....

but it's late and maybe I misread it........I;ll have another look in the morning.

BUT for me.....every action has a consequence....or that was how I was brought true sympathies are with the victims of this child's crimes......though I do feel for him he does need to have a suitable punishment..and it's clear this isn't going to happen so he'll never learn.


JustGinnie Report 5 Jan 2013 01:36

I still don't feel that dishing out your own justice would make anything better for either the victim or perpetrator.

As Maggie has said the boy wasn't damaged overnight so it is a fault of the system that things were allowed to get so far and so bad. There is something really wrong when a child gets to 12 yrs old and still offends and pleads guilty to the offensives but nothing is done to safeguard him and stop there being more victims. We have to find a better way of dealing with these children because beating them up or thrashing them isn't the answer.

I 'm off to bed now, so no more from me tonight.
(Did I hear someone say "thank god for that :-D)
Goodnight allxx


Muffyxx Report 5 Jan 2013 01:21

I'd prefer the law to deal with it..but given the choice of no punishment because the law doesn't allow for it or my own justice..I'd take my own justice if I had to....rather than none at all.


JustGinnie Report 5 Jan 2013 01:18

How would it make anything better though surely that is just an adult doing something to a child that the child is being condemned for.

I also have daughters and grandaughters and I would be heartbroken if anything happened to them but I don't think I could inflict pain on another person in revenge.
Two wrongs don't make a right and if that makes me a bad mother/person,so be it.


maggiewinchester Report 5 Jan 2013 01:16

Muffy. I feel the same when I think of my 10 year old grand daughter.
BUT - the 'wonderful' system has failed him.
His problems havent occurred overnight, even I can look at a 5 year old and know if they're going to be trouble.
Surely all these trained 'professionals' should have an inkling. Maybe that's the problem - too professional - not enough life experience.


Muffyxx Report 5 Jan 2013 01:08

I have a 12 yr old daughter and I have to admit that somewhat skews my thinking regarding this because if there was no come back should SHE be harmed I would make DAMN SURE i harmed him if the law wasn't adequate which appears to be the case...sorry but there it is.


JustGinnie Report 5 Jan 2013 01:05

I don't know what help and consideration his victims are getting but I sincerely hope they are getting what they need and more. I also hope that somehow this very damaged child gets the help he needs.
They all need help but sadly there seem to be more and more damaged children that inflict hurt on others and I for one don't have the answer to this vicious circle.
What I do have, and hope I always will have, is compassion for any damaged child.


maggiewinchester Report 5 Jan 2013 01:03

I was shocked when, as a Learning support asistant in a Secondary school, many years ago, that, in the first term, I found 10 children who should have been 'statemented' at primary school. When it reached 10, I was told to stop.
So the rest were destined to go to school and learn nothng, because they didn't learn in the 'proscribed' way.

By year 4 in primary school, a child should know the days of the week (preferably in order), the month they're born in, and the months before and after. These children (yr 7) couldn't tell me days of the week in order and had no idea of the months of the year - yet had to learn algebra, history etc. It was so sad. The system' had let them down, and education hasn't got any better.


Muffyxx Report 5 Jan 2013 00:55

I feel for his victims and hope they are given more than a fraction of the care and consideration he is being given......


JustGinnie Report 5 Jan 2013 00:49

Yes I agree that the child should know that actions have consequences and I also feel frustrated that there seemed to be no help available for the child which would have also helped his victims because they would have seen something being done.

BUT I don't think frustration can ever excuse the kind of remarks that were put on there.


Muffyxx Report 5 Jan 2013 00:41

Ok ready to be shot here...but I just see some of those comments being made out of frustration that a CHILD can commit sexual crimes and yet there is no reasonable punishment frustrates me too.

I don't suggest that the child is terminated etc...but feel that those comments were made in sheer anger........because the child DOES have to know surely that there are consequences for what he did?


Kay???? Report 4 Jan 2013 23:34

There is no lawful justice that can be served, **this is the law in his case**,,,,,,justice for this boy is getting the best for him,,,,,, and that isnt a beating senseless with a bat or a death kicking.



JustGinnie Report 4 Jan 2013 22:53

Robert, it is not a normal reaction for me.


SueMaid Report 4 Jan 2013 22:51

"Terminating" the child, suggesting he 'top himself' and saying he needs the "sh*te" kicked out of him is a normal reaction?


Robert Report 4 Jan 2013 22:49

its just normal reactions, people are feeling in this country right now, because justice is not being served


PollyinBrum Report 4 Jan 2013 22:48

I agree Ginnie, infact I take it as a compliment.