General Chat

John I had you down as a religious zealot , Welsh speaking of course :-D

That didn't exactly explain why you were upset - your second sentence said "Am so sorry that people feel that way"

Have only just read this Rose and, whilst I think I know where you are coming from, I do hope that I haven't contributed to your unease.


Cyn. xx

zealots will always deter 'ordinary folk' - deter or anger,either or. And it doesn't matter what religion they represent. JW's take note.

To me, 'religion' is the biggest cause of death and depravity in history, and I've seen some of the consequences of 'Group A' versus 'Group B'. Not pretty, and not justifiable imo.

Aims of the 'high churches/mosques', as far as I believe, are Wealth and Power by whatever means are available.

The Roman Catholic Church has these, in abundance. The Church of England (and subsidiary companies) are somewhat behind, but still up there. The Moslem side is a little down on the scale of both factors,but pushing, which could make for an interesting debate regarding current international situations....

As for me, I lost any 'faith' in 'higher beings' after seeing a number of atrocities conducted by aforementioned 'Groups' against each other.

Other events followed whereby, as far as I'm concerned, my understanding of the human nature of this world became clear. Into this I bring the only 'religious' script that made sense - "You are a temple"; there is no need for anything or anyone else as long as you recognise what you are capable of, or are not capable of, and live with it or address it, as appropriate, balanced with your principles of 'right and wrong'.

Ah! Now does that mean what you consider 'wrong' in the Western world, may be considered 'Right' elsewhere? Hmmm...

The question will be is what is 'appropriate' to you? The same as someone from e.g. Papua New Guinea ?? Ooooo .... can of worms !!! ??

But to answer the OP, no, I no longer have Christian faith.

Cynthia, not at all :-) You are always gently persuasive and very sincere in your beliefs without ever being overbearing or pushy :-)

Thank heaven' s for that! I would hate to put anyone off the faith because it's so important to me, but I can see how it happens unfortunately. Goes for a lie down. :-) Cx

'Holier than thou attitudes' have always upset me. We are anglican and strangely enough when my father died, my vicar let me down badly and some 20 years later my OH was let down the same by a different vicar when his mother died.

Those with a genuine faith are fine by me but when I hear 'church, my faith, etc.' brought up on any excuse whatsoever into a debate/conversation, I feel upset to say it mildly.

I have more respect for those who do a good thing because it's the right thing to do than those who do a good thing because then their god will save them a place in heaven.

I don't like 'holier than though attitudes' either Chris, and I hope I never come across as such. However, when something about the Christian faith is mentioned, I am always interested and, when I think it appropriate, I will comment.

Many Christians will understand where Rose is coming from as we often despair at some of the things which are said and done by those in authority. The thing is, we have to look beyond the personal opinions of those who spout twaddle at times and return to the basic teachings.

If it isn't too personal or upsetting for you, may I ask how you were let down by your vicars?


Chaotic, I realise that many folk think that churchgoing and good works will earn them 'brownie points' etc., but, in Christian terms, Salvation cannot be earned, it is a matter of having trust.


There are plenty of folk who are non-religious who do wonderful work. Likewise, there are those who call themselves Christians who do ...er....notalot! However, I do love these words .........


Many people mistake our work for our vocation.
Our vocation is the love of Jesus.

Mother Teresa


Cx

The "good works" discussion always reminds me of Tony Hancock in the Blood Donor. "Look at this. I gave 1/3d to the Lifeboats, 1/- to the blind. I've booked my place, matey" Paraphrase, but you will see the giste.

Many people feel drawn to good works, and some of the loveliest people are not religious in any way. And some of the right old whatsits are religious.

I see an awful lot of non-religious people who seem a lot nicer and more humanitarian than me - and that is a huge challenge I personally face. Because I want to shed the love and light of Jesus wherever I go and whatever I do. But it has changed me a lot these last 30 years when I look back. No swearing, no smoking, no drinking, visiting elderly, being fairly polite, able to wipe slate clean each morning and not bear any grudges whatsoever. And I promise I was nothing like that 30 years ago.

You wouldn't have liked me in those days - unless you liked a rude and aggressive bully.

Cynthia, sorry, I didn't mean to apply that to all christians. Some would do a good thing purely because it's the right thing to do.

I'm not even sure my post is 100% relevant to Rose's thread, it was just going through my mind while I was reading the other posts.

Chaotic.......I understand.....99% relevant is absolutely fine.... ;-) :-D

Just popping on briefly as I'm feeling really rough today. so will probably make less sense even than usual lol.

Cat, very relevant, and Cynthia also. As most people do I know self proclaimed 'religious' people who would not pick you up if you fell in front of them ( literally and metaphorically) and people who have no religion or faith who would do everything they could for you, and then some.

I certainly wouldn't want to pigeonhole, but I have come across several preachers etc who, to use the hackneyed phrase ( which is about all I'll manage today I fear lol) "talked the talk but didn't walk the walk".

Not just applied me, but it's a follow on from several conversations I've had lately.... that being let down , not by God, but by those who stand in the place of his disciples ( my phrase hope it's clear what I mean by it) is often the defining moment.

Back later, if I'm feeling more sensible lol.

Sorry you are felling so rough today, Rose. Hopefully back on sparkling form tomorrow. :-)

Sending (((hugs))) Rose and hope you feel better soon.

I know exactly what you mean and it's dreadful when that happens.

Sometimes though, folk have misconceptions of the faith and that can be a problem when another point of view is put to them.

Have a nice cup of tea and put your feet up.......... <3

I could write a book!
Rose. I am so sorry you are not feeling too good today, take good care.
I lived in a lovely village for thirty eight years, the Church on one side and the Church organist and his wife, who was on the Parish Council lived on the other side. They were of a similar age to us and went to school with my late husband, however we were never neighbourly, he did not drink or smoke and quite honestly (literally) looked down his nose at those who did.

He was a miserable looking man very critical and on many occasions made some very sweeping judgements. His wife was a nosy gossip and knew everyone’s business and had no problem repeating what she knew. On one occasion when an old lady in the street died one of her neighbours organised a street collection, the organists wife declined to contribute to the collection saying she did not really know the lady. On another occasion, she rang the local Council to report us for having a satellite dish erected on the side of our property, we both lived in detached houses, so it was not inconveniencing them in anyway. She also make a very snide remark when I was pegging washing on the line, on a Sunday! I politely told her my FIL was seriously ill in hospital and I was bringing home some washing. She just said “Oh I did not know” and passed it off.

I am smiling as I type this remembering them after many of our Saturday entertaining evening dinner parties, watching them walking past our house on Sunday mornings going to Church, straight faces, eyes averted, (I can still hear the “sniff” from here ) A new family moved into the street, the father made no apology for the fact he was an agnostic, he was a well known business man, well educated with great sense of humour and one of the kindest people one could ever wish to meet. He would always be the first to offer help, and along would come his children to give a hand to anyone when the occasion arose. Over the years it became clear to me, and to others living in the village, who one could turn to and rely on for an act of true kindness, friendship, and support.

I am not for one moment comparing the experience of my neighbours and saying it applies to everyone, and this has not effected my own beliefs. I believe there are good and bad in all walks of life, I prefer to treat everyone with the same respect, and not be too judgemental and be ever-mindful that we don’t course know all aspects of their lives and just what makes them “tick” as I have said, I could write a book............

Cynthia - I have pm'd you.

Thanks Chris.....have replied... :-D


Paula, you have portrayed the archetypical 'Christian' couple there haven't you? I can visualise exactly what you are saying and can almost hear the sniff too.. lol What a miserable old couple indeed and just the type to put folk off the faith for ever!! :-0


I'm not sure I've come across that type of attitude lately, but we certainly still have our moaners and groaners. In fact, I think some people are born moaning and groaning or at least complaining about something. :-D


When they 'kick off' so to speak, everyone looks at everyone else with raised eyebrows and rolling eyeballs as if to say...."Here they go again" and then we try and jolly them out of their misery! :-D


I can cope with the moaners and groaners most of the time but, the ones who really get to me are those who are regular in worship but behave in a most un-Christlike manner outside. I feel very let down by them. :-(


Cx