General Chat

well I'd still like him to stand up and be counted here - he makes such sweeping statements and if they lead to him being ridiculed, then he should just stop it - and much as you may wish to "stick up for him" Cynthia, he is quite able to do it for himself, and as for goading - he has a degree in it as demonstrated by that statement - I am certainly not goading him, just ask him to explain that sweeping statement

I seem to recall many many years ago being told/reading that RC priests in Far East and S. America etc. were allowed to marry.

I have always felt they should be able to marry - come into the real world instead of a glass bowl. If there those that prefer to remain celibate, then that is their choice but there should be a choice.

Oh my Lord (pardon the pun. Reading some of these postings, I am at a loss to understand from where certain people gather their facts. Some people don't half speak some “claptrap” on here.

“Claptrap” definition Empty verbiage or nonsense. :-D :-D

exactly - still waiting for the fount of all knowledge to return with some words of wisdom

Paula, some us gather our facts from knowledge and personal experience - it's just unfortunate that some of us do not express ourselves very well.

Paula,
most of it gained from the Cyber Bible "Wikipedia" plus a little help from the "Christian" Bible.
Unfortunately both products of the human race, so both equally flawed.
:-D :-D

well my knowledge and personal experience completely refutes his sweeping statement

Ann - it looks as though you are goading John to return just so that you can argue with him. :-(

I am not goading him Cynthia - don't keep saying that - he has made a statement and I and two others on here vehemently disagree with it - how is that goading when we ask him to explain himself - and he is quite able to speak for himslf - why do you insist on doing it for him - he's a grown up

Awfully sorry I have to keep going out. Must take my laptop to the shops and tell my wife to hurry along whilst I answer posts.

Yes, Ann. I was pussyfooting round the doctrine of original sin.

Is it not accepted teaching in your particular church, then? It is one of the fundamental precepts of mine. I perhaps flowered it up a bit for effect, but most of us notice it particularly in rebellious teenagers. And most of us were one of those once, I suspect.

Original sin suggests we are born selfish and will follow our passions unless restrained. Restrained by parents, friends, children sometimes. And restrained by God if we believe in Him. I think that is one teaching that almost all Protestants and Catholics can agree about.

flowered it up - indeed you did - and by the way, not all of us were rebellious teenagers - at the time I was a teenager we did as we were told - you rebelled at your peril

Thanks, will take "flowered it up" as a compliment, I think.
Hate to say this. But you have ignored my question, Ann. What does your church believe about teaching of original sin?

Oh, you're back John. :-D


I was just going to suggest that Ann had a word with her Rector about the 39 Articles (which he agreed to uphold at his ordination) and the concept of Original Sin. :-D


This is from the Church of England website....

***********
Of the Church of England

The Church of England, established according to the laws of this realm under the Queen's Majesty, belongs to the true and apostolic Church of Christ; and, as our duty to the said Church of England requires, we do constitute and ordain that no member thereof shall be at liberty to maintain or hold the contrary.

Of the Thirty-nine Articles of Religion

The Thirty-nine Articles are agreeable to the Word of God and may be assented unto with a good conscience by all members of the Church of England.

*****************


Original Sin comes in at No. 9 of the 39.


Did you know that there are 39 buttons on a priest's cassock.....as a reminder of the Articles when they are fastened. It's a bit 'old hat' now, but interesting just the same. :-)

Got to go out soon but have been googling around for a more up-to-date explanation ....the original is very 'thee, thou, yea, nay' language.

This may help.


We usually shrug off our shortcomings by saying, “I’m only human” – but that is only an explanation, not an excuse.

The 39 Articles declare that people are “predisposed to evil”. That may sound like an exaggeration, but who of us can deny that we do things every day which fall short of even our own standards?

Somerset Maugham once said, “If I wrote down every thought I have ever thought and every deed I have ever done, men would call me a monster of depravity.”

The Bible urges us to compare ourselves with God’s standards; only then do we see how far short we have fallen, and how much we need a saviour.


:-)

obvously my church teaches original sin but not in the way you have described it - poetic license springs to mind

"Original sin suggests we are born selfish and will follow our passions unless restrained. Restrained by parents, friends, children sometimes. And restrained by God if we believe in Him. I think that is one teaching that almost all Protestants and Catholics can agree about."

One thing you can say for John, is that he pushes one to clarify ones own opinions on matters . I don't agree with the above, I have 'read up' briefly the various church's stance on 'original sin' and it seems the more doctrine I read the further I get from 'organised religion'.

39 buttons on a priests cassock - I'm learning something everyday. I don't think I need to go to church anymore. I think I will just log on to this site.

GP

Oh dear Rose,after reading all this I think when I pop My Clogs I,ll have to take a "Stoking Shovel "With me. Oh woe is me. :-(

I have just looked in my Thesaurus for definition in simple terms. Original sin - a sin said to be inherited by all descendants of Adam; "Adam and Eve committed the original sin when they ate the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden" an act that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God's will............. :-S

I am just a bit worried that we are rather straying from the OP about RC priests being allowed to marry. If that ever was accepted by the Pope, how would he react to a same sex marriage?

Original sin stems from something that King David said. We are all born in sin, and shapen in crookedness.

Now, I have hardly ever met anyone who denies we grow up and move away from good (or God) until there is a major intervention in our lives. But there is virtually no acceptance that babies are born sinful. Even in churches where we recite "born in sin" so often, there is a general disbelief.

It is often expressed something like "my baby died at 3 weeks old. She was the sweetest baby imaginable and you are telling me she was born in sin". Never an easy one. Raises the thorny question of infant baptism, but not a subject for this thread, I am sure.