General Chat

Many of the non-Scots living in Scotland will vote NO. Are the thousands of RBS, Standard Life, Bank of Scotland and Shell Staff who may lose their jobs on independence likely to vote Yes???

It will never happen.

This is a waste of time and money!!!

Yes, I caught the play while I was driving.

I am not sure what point the author and/or producers were trying to make. Possibly just that the media glitterati have a preference for any kind of opposition to the English and especially Dave the wannabee Scotsman.

The idea in the program that post a "yes" independence vote negotiations would be held anywhere near Holyrood House is fatuous - the English have seen too many episodes of Rebus to take such a chance.

The program as usual portrays Dave the brave as dim and by proxy the entire English ruling establishment. There are many things you would not say about the English ruling class ( including the Left ) in front of the horses but they are neither dim nor soft ( other than the Stansgates of course ).

Wee 'eck on the other hand is portrayed as somebody infinitely smarter than dim Dave who is allowed to negotiate away solo all UK red lines such as no currency union. Dave is allowed a small victory on the golf driving range.

The heavy focus on the submarine base at Faslane betrays the motives of the author and very likely the producers of the program. The conclusion that the English would pay any price to maintain the base for 20 years is absurd.

Leaving Radio4 fantasy behind the Scots people are not daft and moreover have long and dreadful memories of the Sassenachs as enemies. I kinda doubt that they want a rerun. As it is wee ' eck is already showing just what kind of democracy he has in mind for Scotland. Unfortunately the English are already showing their teeth.

The vote will be a crushing "no".

As it is considered correct to disclose any personal bias in such matters I have a great friend who works for RBS at Penecuik, one of my female rellies was married to one of the Bentinck - Cumberlands, my GGF was garrisoned at Fort George, Inverness where his wife had three daughters, a present day rellie is a uni lecturer in Dundee. Going a bit further back an ancestor was one of the victors at Flodden. A female ancestor was burned alive in her fortified house by the Scots in a border raid. Biased? me, no, I love malt Scotch, Ian Rankin, Angus beef, Auld Reekie and sailing through the Minch.

I strongly believe that both Scotland and England have benefited no end from the union and breaking it asunder would do neither country any good at all. The sums now wasted on the referendum are a drop in the ocean to what an independent Scotland would burn through.

Maybe in the spirit of friendship we could lend Mr Lancaster to Scotland for a few months and he could instil the basics of how to play rugby union football.

The most frightening thing about it all is that the senior Civil Service are in favour . The Treasury sees a chance to make a major slash in expenditure. Creating Scottish duplicates of all the departments of state could create a jobs beanfeast. Osbourne - who has said very little in support of the Union - sees it as a great chance for permanent Tory govt in England. Alistair Carmichael MP has gone feral.

Radio 4 had a fascinating play on Friday afternoon based around the Yes votes winning. The play centred around the post election meeting at Holyrood between David Cameron and Alex Salmon to negotiate terms.

Worth listening to if you missed it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03xgsly

I lived in Scotland for 10 years and I can see both sides

70%-30% for the NO vote is my prediction. You heard it here first. Bob

I have lived in Spain for nearly 10 years & am married to a Spaniard.
I can vote in the local elections, but not the national ones unless I take Spanish nationality. I can´t do that until I have lived in Spain for 15 years...not that I want to!!
Surely there is a need to equal out people´s voting rights throughout the EU. Either you can only vote in your country of birth, or only in your country of habitual residence no matter where you were born.

Why all the focus on what Alex Salmond thinks? If it was just him then it would be just one vote for independence. No, what matters is what the people resident in Scotland, of whatever nationality, think. If they gained independence then Salmond could be out on his ear at the first Scottish General Election. That's how democracy works. Furthermore, this is not an argument about if Scotland will go independent but more a matter of when. The referendum might just be too soon but change is underway and many see independence as inevitable.

I am presuming the judgement that the European Court of Human Rights handed down in respect of UK elections has set a precedent, if that is the case, I think that if a case is brought on behalf of Scots ex-pats in respect of the Scottish referendum, the European Court of Human Rights could well rule that a blanket ban on Scots ex-pats is to rigid and unfair.

Only time will tell, because if such a case is brought, it will put a spanner in the works, for the plans of Alex Salmond and his cronies, not least, whether the referendum can go ahead on the planned date.

Ex pat celebrity friends of Alex Salmond who have not lived in Scotland
for years want independence, if that should happen God help us, they
don't live here so will not suffer the consequences that the rest of us will.

Scotland and it's people doesn't matter a jot to them so imo should not have
the right to vote.

Emma

Yes you can vote in UK elections upto 15 yrs after you've left the country if you're still a UK citizen, and you've registered with elections office in the area you used to live in.

I may be wrong but I think ex-pats are allowed to vote in UK elections for up to 15-year after they moved to live abroad, in a recent case, the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg ruled, that the UK prohibiting voting after 15 years by individuals who had gone to live abroad, were proportionate and fair.

To allow ex-pats a vote seems morally wrong. If their 'main residence' is no longer in Scotland, why should they have a say in the country's future? Where would you draw the line? Would they want to include Scottish born people who have lived elsewhere for the majority of their adult lives, say 40+ years?

The same could apply if Wales, N Ireland or England was being discussed.

On the subject of voting in the Scottish referendum - I found this report in the Sunday Times today quite interesting:-

Alex Salmond, Scotland’s first minister, acted illegally by denying expatriate Scots a vote in the independence referendum, according to one of Britain’s top barristers.

Aidan O’Neill, a QC who is expert in EU law, said the decision had “good prospects” of being overturned in a judicial review on the grounds that it violated Scottish expatriates’ right to freedom of movement under European law.

The formal advice was commissioned by James Wallace, a lawyer born and raised in Dumfries but now based in London. He is sending the legal opinion to Salmond and David Cameron today, demanding they enfranchise the estimated 1.15m Scottish expatriates in order to avoid court action that could delay the referendum due on September 18.

If the threat is ignored, O’Neill says a petition, backed already by more than 2,700 Scots and demanding a judicial review, could be lodged within a week.

Which of the following countries is the largest in terms of size and population?

Jamaica
Uruguay
Scotland
Norway
Ireland
Croatia
New Zealand

Of course it is Scotland. 85 independent countries in the 189 countries of UN are smaller than Scotland. Including Finland, Denmark and some quite significant ones (unlike the list of second raters above).

It would make as much sense (if we ignore the different cultures) to amalgamate two fairly small countries - Australia and New Zealand. Can you imagine? Scotland is as proud a nation as Ireland or Jamaica, surely.

We have an equivalent problem here in Canada

Quebec


There was a referendum for Quebec sovereignty in 1980

It failed.

There was another in 1995

For that one, many Canadians went to Quebec carrying Canadian flags, and basically saying "let's stay together"

That referendum failed by the smallest of margins ...... 49% to 51%

The Quebec government is now thinking of holding another referendum, especially if they win the election called for April 7.


The separatists believe they can separate from Canada, but maintain Canadian currency, travel under Canadian passports, support, protection (by the armed forces), etc etc. On the other hand, Quebe expects to allowed to trade as and when it wants, not to share any part of the Canadian debt but to have Canada take over its debt (even after secession) ................. and to succeed in North America as a French only society

It odn't work that way!




Oh, by the way ............................... the northern third of Quebec is occupied by First Nations peoples. They don't want to separate from Canada.

BUT Quebec have said that the First Nations won't be allowed to secede from Quebec



I've been watching news reports about Scotland, and what London is saying, with great interest

Nicola Sturgeon , Alex salmon's deputy said "if they dont win, they will do another referendum in 2025"( i think this is the date she said)!! What planet are they on and which bit do they not yet understand. Every person here I speak to says they dont want independance!

I know i am English maried to a scot, but no English person i know up here will vote yes.

Scotland is too small and not financially able to manage on their own. As someone else said this referendum is costing a fortune and is a total waste of money and i happen to agree.

Florence
in the hebrides :-|

If Scotland votes for independence it will go broke in short order. For that reason the referendum will fail.

Why would the English resident in Scotland not vote ? There is not much reluctance of the Scots living in England to vote.

Usually EU citizens resident in the UK may vote in local elections and EU elections ( if registered ) but not in parliamentary elections. Even if eligible to vote in the referendum there are not enough to sway the result. EU citizens may stand for election to local govt posts.

British commonwealth citizens resident in the UK have the same voting rights as British citizens including referendums and even the right to stand as an MP.

If ( very big if ) Scotland became independent much the same conditions as for Ireland after 1922 would apply. British citizens born abroad can have their birth registered at the Embassy and that would include an independent Scotland.

So far the ongoing nationality of Scottish residents is a moot point. Those born in England, Wales or NI will be able to go on as British. Those born in Scotland may be happy to become Scots after UI day, a good many won't. This has happened before when Canada was created out of the independent USA.

Dermot is right. There needs to be a lot of sensible debate before the voters living in Scotland place their vote. I am sure there are many pluses and minuses, but I feel the powers that be (and HM the Queen is still a very powerful voice) are leaning on the 3 Unionist parties (Cons, Labour and Lib Dems) to present an Armageddon type scenario (to a nation that has got more potential than Switzerland or Norway).

Some Labour voters in Scotland will be pro-independence because Scotland votes left wing and gets right wing time after time.

I think it will be a close call. My gut instinct is same as Robert. But new UK Labour goverment in 2015 (under Miliband - yes, it WILL happen) will have to keep their own voters sweet in Scotland with more devolution and tax raising powers.

Relax Folks- Scotland will NOT get independence.

There are fewer tan 6million people in Scotland of whom about 4million will be able to vote.
There are 400,000 English people in Scotland and nearly as many other Nationalities who are unlikely to vote Yes, so I cannot see the Yes campaign getting a majority.
This is a total waste of money - and who is paying for it???

Would Salmond drop the idea if there was a majority No vote?

Part of me says go for it if you think you can be financially independent - just don't come crying to 'Mother' if you need a bail out. Oh, by the way, you'll have to take on some of the UK debt caused by the UK government support of the failed Scottish Banks.

On the other hand, the implications of untangling everything is horrendous.

One has to smile at strenuous efforts to undermine the Scottish people with underlying arrogance & determination by trying to convince them that they are virtually superior beings by staying part of the UK.

Don't allow the politicians to fool everyone.