General Chat

It is true that many people haven't got much of a clue, which is obvious by reading some of the postings when political topic come up, especially when it comes to the financial side of things.

The government deals in billions, that is thousands of millions, so thinking that saving a few million here or there with change everything is complete nonsense. The 9 million to send out leaflets equates to 30 pence per family....! Yes 30 pence.

That said, I think that more people than admit to it have already made their mind up. I'm always a 'don't know' if ever asked but in reality know exactly who or what I will vote for. I'm sure than many others are just the same.

And, another thing, use your vote. There are far too many who are perfectly happy to spout their opinions but never bother to vote at all. I have voted at every single election, local, national except for one local which was on the day of a house move since 1968.....!

well I wouldn't have put it quite like that Derek .....but I rather wish I had :-)

OK you lot. listen up.............there are many hundreds of thousands of people who are going to vote on the 25 June, who have no idea at all what they are voting for........like those who voted in Margaret \thatcher because she was "the first female PM".what a GAS!!!..and those who will vote to leave the EU because they think Boris is such a fun guy....and that moron who leads the Right Wing purple thingy party..whose name and party i have forgotten.......not really..I don't want to sully my fingertips by naming such utter idiots..
Has it occurred to you that all the peeps who are urging you to leave are all the vvery RIGHT WING of british politics and evn the Tory.partiy..are trying to telly you that we are better off IN than OUT.

THAT..MY FRIENDS is why you have been sent a Booklet outlining the pros and cons............which none of the jingoistic isolationists have bothered to do.

Read the bloody thing..and anything else you can get you hands on that give a reasoned view,,,,,,,,,,,
I'd bet my life on the fact that at least 50% of those who vote NO..will not have read anything except Right Wing Trash newspapers.
I'm not a Tory,, neither am i a Liberal.........and i'm far too old to actually give a shit about what happens after the referendum...............but at least 40% of those that vote will be political ly subnormal..and will vote NO..........
I firmly believe that referendums should be limited to those who have at least some intellectual ability..and political nous.
Do you realise that Democracy is a legal suppression of 49.999999% of any population............???????????????

Exactly Brian doesn't matter what he's been promised none of it's likely to ever happen as someone will vote against it. Why would Poland for instance vote on their people not being able to claim Child benefit in the UK when it's all sent back to their country and spent there ?
How many people work in the UK and send all their money home to build a massive house there whilst living in cramped conditions in the UK ?
And yes in theory anyone from the UK can do the same thing in other countries except the wages are lower so not much to send home.

The "In" brigade are in favour of remaining in a reformed EU.
Get real, there aint going to be any reform. We do not have a veto and are outvoted 27 to 1.
The only road ahead is "Ever closer union" in which will eventually see national parliaments, if allowed to continue, losing most of their legislative powers.

X-Ray machines are allowed to be used to search for smuggled goods (contraband) on trucks that have already been searched for illegal migrants. If the migrant has not been found or declared himself/herself when the people search took place, alas, he/she will be discovered by the x-ray for contraband.

There are usually ways and means around everything. :-0

If your borders are secure right now under the EU, why does the EU forbid you from using X-Rays on the lorries coming from Europe which would show illegals inside ? My understanding is it's not allowed as it might hurt their health....not because it might stop them getting into the UK and stay in the rest of Europe.

Also if you stay in how many will rush to the UK once Turkey is allowed in to the EU ?

Don't forget any so called reforms Dave was "promised" haven't been passed by the other countries and many have already said they'll not pass them.

Oh, peops, everyone seems to be getting hot under the collar about the booklet (which I shall read, in time).

Important questions need to be asked about why LAs do not have a more co-ordinated approach to their collection bins. They should all use the same colours. We have a black bin for general rubbish, a brown one for garden waste and two for recycling - one, a blue bin and another a green box, depending on the items.

Here's a poser. What's happened to the climate change brigade? I've not heard much from them recently and this morning, by 10 am, we'd had rain, sleet, snow and sunshine. :-0

On the subject in question, it's too late as they're printed and distributed so we may as well see them recycled by us or by No. 10 and I certainly won't get off my backside to faff about returning them either paying for postage or not.

I have made my mind up already as I don't see why UK manufacturers ought to begin paying export duty to send goods to Europe. I believe those large companies will simply move production to Europe, thereby resulting in huge job losses in the UK.

I also believe that, regardless of what people believe, our border controls work in the way of keeping people out who shouldn't be here. However, people smugglers will always be with us and, so, there will always be those who slip through the net. I feel that, when caught, illegal immigrants ought to be deported immediately and any appeal ought not to be at the expense of the public. That, however, may require new legislation unless anyone (judiciary or otherwise) can find a loophole in the current laws on deportation/extradition. I add 'extradition' here because I believe it may just be possible to do so.

Finally, and perhaps superficially in my opinion, why would I want to add to the coffers of the various European countries I should like to visit by paying for visas.

Where is the *yawn* emoticon?

I am not "they". By using this term I assumed that those of many stripes who see themselves as members of the "ruling class" was implied. Count me out.

Rollo, you insult Bob earlier and state that you do regard the rest of the populace as nincompoops etc.

Do you ever get tired of always being right (in your eyes only)?. I did say I had gathered my information over the years.

You never appear to praise but always to condemn

As for the monkeys - it was 'see no evil', hear no evil' and 'speak no evil' - not your version.

I take it from your answer to my question that you don't know Rollo. From what I can glean from the newspapers, David Cameron went cap in hand to the Eurocrats asking for very little and got even less. He then came home and declared his discussions a "success".

My green bin is for general waste, it's the brown bin which is for recycling! I'm sure my council would be delighted to have their landfill targets compromised with more *rubbish*.

Oh, I actually live in Wales :-D

>>> Today I received the government booklet - never opened it - it is now in an envelope with a letter to our PM and I will not begrudge the postage.

How is that going to inform any debate? No doubt you are acquainted with the three wise moneys (hear nothing, saw nothing, say nothing) ?


>>> Do they think we are nincompoops or sheep?

Yes.

>>> Yes we voted in the seventies but it was for Free Trade: not to be ruled by a money gobbling state.

I voted in the 1975 referendum (yes). Although the govt. and the press treated the EU as a "free trade zone" is was never such nor did it so describe itself. Wilson & Co knew this perfectly well. So did Tony Benn and James Callaghan which is why they were so against the EU. Did you listen to Mr Benn? Did you read the preamble to the Treaty?

>>> The financial reports have not been audited for is it 9 or 10 years now.

They have been audited and signed off for every year since 2006. The error in UK Govt audits is often > 20% and sometimes near 100%. Try and get the facts which are rarely to be found in whatever pub Nigel Faraj has chosen for the evening.

>>> As for the move every few weeks - what a waste of time and money.

The Strasbourg/Brussels to and fro is part of the democratic basis of the EU. Democracy is an expensive form of government but it is better than the others (Churchill).

The referendum is a deux ex machina designed to hold the Tory Party together. Given the mud flying around and hard things said whatever the result that may not happen. A "remain" vote could see the party collapse on itself as it did after the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1843.

>>> I will cease now and hope that more of the population return the booklets to No.10.

You could just chuck it in the green bin rather than adding a few bob to government expenditure in dealing with it. Easier too.

I haven't read it yet, but I will.

However I am voting to stay in, as is Dan, who has never yet needed me to 'make up his mind for him' lolol :-) It hardly needs to be said that my reasoning is NOT because DC or whoever thinks we should, it's because I have weighed up the arguments for myself.

PS as to whether the govt should have spent that much on booklets, almost certainly not...but then they do have an obligation to inform all voters, and explain the position of the elected govt' on this...which is a seperate issue to the campaigns of both 'in' and 'out' factions across all parties isn't it.

Why is it that Rollo always (to himself that is) appears to be in the right, no matter what the topic is and we are treated to a long diatribe. You name it, he has been there
and done it and as a consequence 'treats' us all to his thoughts.

My answer to the Reforendum has been gathered over many years and not in the last few months of panic.

Rollo - try to remember that we can think forselves and do not deserve to be treated like sheep. Over time, I have learned that when I see a Rollo post - if it is short, I will read it, if it is long nine times out of ten I pass.

The BBC covera ge seems a little one-sided.
E.g. The "EU" crackdown on tax avoidance when it's an agreement between five countries who happen to be in the EU.
Reminds me of the previous referendum when the Beeb put on "Jeux Sans Frontieres" which, with hindsight, seems to have been designed to portray the then Common Market countries as lovable playmates for kiddies games whilst ignoring the politics.

:-D

lolol Maggie, no I'll leave that to others.......you know me and mine...plain old Jones from Bala.

I'm not even related to Tom :-(

Sue, surely your family member has SOME important title - you know, Laird of the Isles, Maid of the Bedchamber, Holder of the Loo Roll, or something that would convince Rollo you know someone important?

Bob, I too am interested in these 'massive reforms'.
Maybe we know nothing because we read the newspapers (full of biased spin), or perhaps, because we don't!! :-S
Certainly never glean any information from PMQ's, apart from what school life was like at Eton. :-|