General Chat

yep, we get those!

I hate them.

Don't know if you get them in Canada, Sylvia, but I'm plagued by automated PPI calls from 'number with held' - my sister gets them on her mobile and work phone.

As one of my friends has 'number with held' - I have to answer, and can't block :-(

What's worse, as it's automated, they can't hear what I think of them :-|

well, gee whiz


.............. and there I was thinking that England was just off the coast of Newfoundland


You learn something new every day.




Now, please, may we have an end to this dissertation on cell phones, smartphones, everyone should have one, where one can or cannot get reception, and the geographical descriptions of counties, motorways, countries etc.

I posted this thread as an advisory re a scam ................. not to provide a platform to one person.



Thank you.

England is a medium sized country 40 km off the north east coast of Europe with around half of the population living withn 200km of Calais so that they are wthin pigeion post distance of Paris and Brussels.

Half of the main island pretty well unihabited perhaps because of the poor mobile phone connection and none existent broadband. The lack of these services regularly comes as a surprise to spur-of-the-moment hikers and J Clarkson who think GoogleMaps is an ideal climbing aid.

The govenment of the day has come up with a cunning scheme. It is going to cut Europe off where it hurts. At one stroke both the overcrowding and communcations problems will be fixed - non-Brits and Remoaners will be shipped south while communications can get back to usual, a natter over some nice Yorkshire Tea.

This BBC article covers some of the issue:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30273667

It skims over the fact that Virgin buries the charge inside its overall billing. Virgin have to pay the bulk charge to OpenReach otherwise its customers could not use the UK POTS system.

UKGov has recently raised the charge by £ 1 / month per line. - the charge applies to all allocated phone nos inc biz switchboards! However medium and large business can install phone systems entirely independent of BT and this avoid most of the charge. This p-s off OpenReach no end.

The infrastructure costs of running a number are nowhere nr £ 13/month. Traditionally the surplus has been used to fund POTS telephone service to wild and outlying areas and islands. Now the fund is also being used to install rural broadband. Openreach does not much care but UKGov is keen 'cos the estate agents are telling them that poor broadband is a deal killer.

I have no problem with that except that OpenReach are grossly overcharging and rollout is far slower than it could be.

Broadband in the Black Country & Brum is terrible too but there is no fund, the voters don't vote Tory and so the problem is ignored. Oddly enough HS2 is affordable.

The "me" generation who tend not to use the landline are gipping at the cost of approx £ 150 p.a. For that reason UKGov via OFCOM is pressuring ISPs to subsume the "minimum monthly line rental charge" into their overall costs. Not very transparent.

fwiw governments raising significant revenues from call charges has always been regarded as a third world sort of thing.

'Govt phone socket tax'

Could you clarify please as it's not something we were aware of applying in the UK. Searches did find something similar related to the US.
Genuine question, not a criticism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t9ZJK-vc-I

:-D

"Somerset is a medium sized county about 130 miles from London."

thank you for that info Rollo - I don't suppose any of us were aware of that

Well, if there are solutions, why aren't they used by the network companies?

I presume you've tried to use your phone in the areas you mentioned:
"Most of the population live along the coast from Lymington to Portsmouth, the M3 corridor and the Blackwater Valley. Mobile service in the New Forest, Ringwood, around Petersfield and the A34 north of Winchester tends to be pretty bad."

Which part of the M3 corridor? It's quite long and goes through a few counties, in fact, I believe I may live in it!!.
I personally never have problems in the areas near the M3 that I use, and the rest are regular haunts of mine. I suppose I could ask the ex what his signal is like on the northernmost points of the M3 - he travels all the way down the M3 sometimes, but I can't be arsed bothering him, and he doesn't use his phone when driving, anyway.
I rarely have connection problems with any of the areas you cite - apart from a small stretch of the A272 - I could tell you exactly where, but can't be bothered to look at a map, oh and on the occasional trip into a deep boggy valley far off the beaten track in the New Forest.
But then I haven't got a 'Smartphone', and, unlike you, who if contradicted would declare the challenger wrong - I wouldn't say you were wrong - probably depends on the phone and network. It also indicates that it's not just rural areas that suffer from poor service.
I also don't go out so I can stare at my phone, or make calls to people who I'm not with. (as I believe I've said before - prefer calls to my landline), but if the whole area is bad on your phone, perhaps you need to change your phone.

No doubt you will contradict as you once passed by and decided, by the camber of the motorway the exact lie of the land, and, by deduction, the network.

As for your 'ahem' comment about Somerset - I thought you'd already established the wonderful signal in the North - but that's not all of a County. The world doesn't revolve around where you go.

Weald & Downland open museum can occasionally pose problems - but I am more likely to get a signal than others with more recent phones.
However, spending a day in the past with no dorks blindly walking along texting or phoning is incredibly pleasant.

I have not said that northern Somerset has a "perfect" mobile phone service I said that it was fair with little or no 4G service away from Bath. I pointed out that the Chew Lake is noted for its black spots as a lot of people go there for water sports and fishing.

If MWinchester wants to impute value judgements to myself that is her affair but entirely incorrect. I just report things as they are I have no skin in the game.

Many English counties are similar to Somerset in having a densely populated part which tends to have pretty good GSM service and large rural areas where the service is poor and even non-existant.

Hampshire is another such. Most of the population live along the coast from Lymington to Portsmouth, the M3 corridor and the Blackwater Valley. Mobile service in the New Forest, Ringwood, around Petersfield and the A34 north of Winchester tends to be pretty bad.

GSM technology was not designed for sparsely populated areas and is even worse for them than the deprecated analog cellphone technology still in limited use in the USA. The lack of digital mobile phones signal in rural areas only became a political issue when David Cameron encountered it on his Cornish holiday. Action on the matter since his demise has been nil.

It may be worth stating that the current incarnation of "smart meters" depends on a GSM signal being available which may be one reason why the rollout has stalled.

High quality 3G let alone 4G GSM service is never coming to most of rural England. Operators are reducing the number of installed masts and focussing on profitable 4G rather than expanding 2G coverage. If brexit happens they will also of course be able to beef up their revenues by bringing back hefty roaming charges.

There are two solutions for lack of digital phone signal in rural areas other than installing more and more masts.

(1) The broadband network for rural areas is being upgraded fairly quickly to a level which will support streaming TV. A mobile phone can easily connect to broadband and then make calls via a digital app. As well as at home connection is available in places which provide free broadband such as many pubs and restaurants, supermarkets (Waitrose, JS & Tesco all do this), some banks and even some NHS Hospitals!

(2) There is a gadget called a fem2cell which will allow a mobile phone to use its native phone number over broadband internet. Typically it is connected to a home or small office router and provides service for any phone within about 20m. The phone must use the same ISP as the broadband. This works fine for instance with Virgin and EE. The usual uses are in cities where for whatever reason the signal is blocked or in rural areas where it is too weak. I use one in London and another in, ahem, Somerset.

Traditional landline phones complete with 3 wire connection ( only the UK ever had a seperate bell wire ) are now in fact digital either from the socket if OpenReach has renewed it recently or at leaast from the local service box. The call is routed digitally. It is the intention of the ISPs to fold this network such that numbers are primarily associated with people rather than a location. As with analog and fm radio the cut off date will largely depend on usage of the relict system. The Norwegians have already ditched FM. Most of the European LW/MW service has been disabled. POTS phone service is going too but will most likely survuve the next 10 years. What would def. kill it off in short order in the UK would be the end of the govt phone socket tax of about £ 12 /month. As this money is being used to fund rural broadband such an event is improbable in the medium term.

I have never suggested that mobile phones are foolproof, there are 1001 ways to part a fool from his money and smart phones are no exception.

It is correct to say that with a smart phone it is far easier to regulate just who can call you, send texts etc which makes life a lot harder for scammers. There are features in Android, iOS and Windows10 which prevent man-in-the-middle attacks, security such as fingerprint reader and so on. It is up to the individual to use them or not.

There has been endless publicity from banks NOT to enter sensiitive banking data into web forms or give same to callers over the phone whether landline or mobile. Unfortunately some people, mainly but not all elderly, seem impervious to the advice and get scammed. The result can as you point out be sad. I cannot see any reason why Santander should compensate.

A few years ago my own a/c was cloned using the details on an expired photocopy of my passport obtained from an agency. Several thousand pounds were shifted to Orlando, FL. My bank dug in their heels and it took a year before I was fully refunded for my loss with a princely £ 50 as good will on top. Phones of any sort did not come into it.

There is an epidemic pf theft-by-(stolen)-scooter in central London. Handbags and briefcases are fav. targets. Maybe MW thinks the scooter makers should provide better theft security and compensate for the thefts. Alternatively not wearing the latest Mulberry at Camden lock may be an idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOnbeNAxdU

There was a case on 'Moneybox'on Radio 4 today where a woman had £180,000 stolen from her Santander account, after someone claiming to be from BT contacted her about her online banking security codes.
They asked her to type them into her (obviously mobile) phone.
Over the next week, the money was taken out of her (business) account in 3 lots.

Santander are refusing to refund the money - even though they say they 'watch out' for any 'unusual activity' on online accounts, they claim that because it's a business account 'unusual activity' is difficult to monitor!!

Oh - must be a pile of bull - NO-ONE (apparently) gets scam calls on mobiles, 'cos Rollo says so.

Rollo,
I believe you mentioned the places in Somerset that had mobile signals in a previous thread.
Just because one of your spare homes in Weston Super Mare, and other places you visit have allegedly 'perfect' mobile and internet service, it isn't the same for a lot of people who choose not to live in large towns.

It's okay as 'most of the population' (especially those in the North) get a good service is it?
Oh dear, what a shame about the fishing lake - is that a 'notorious' deadspot because the people that go there have perfect connections where they live and this is a bit of an inconvenience?

Farmers tend to live in rural areas (well they did when I was last there).
Most farming contact with DEFRA, customers, the storing of records etc is by the internet. Mobiles are handy when out looking at stock/crops.
Schoolchildren also need the internet for homework.
Not having it is more than a minor inconvenience - or do you suggest they all move North, just so they can 'ditch' their landlines and get a super duper overpriced smartphone that some people falsely think doesn't get scam calls or emails.

Quid autem Rutlandiae ad eam

Rollo ..............


Thank you for adding that totally irrelevant information to this thread which was NOT about the availability, or lack thereof, of whatever devices anyone wishes to use OR has available.

As always, you have managed to take a thread away from its intended purpose .................. which, in this case, was a warning about a scam that people might not have come across as yet.

In the process, you have, also as always, managed to insult many of us by implying that we are too old to do x,y,z, and should be doing as you do, as you are the only person who knows what to do.

Please make a new resolution for 2017 ..................

"I will not parade my knowledge in front of everyone, and I will admit that everyone has the right to do as they want to do, not as I (ie you!) want them to do".



I have just returned from a trip where there was no WiFi, broadband, slow band or other service available at all for literally hundreds of miles

All cell phones, smartphones, etc etc were SILENT

How wonderful!



and even more wonderful ......................

only a couple of know-it-alls complained :-D :-D

Somerset is a medium sized county about 130 muiles from London. The local government units are all flat broke.

By area most of the county is rural - esp the hilly Dorset/Devon/Wilts border and even wild (Exmoor). Mobile phone signal varies between poor and non existent. Even the broadband service is bad unless you are one of those fortunate enough to be on the end of an OpenReach upgrade in whjich case you can enjoy 30Mbs and more..

By population though most of the county lives in the northern part - urban areas such as Bath, Nailsea, Clevedon, Weston-super-Mare, Portishead, Keysham. For that part of the population GSM mobile signal is fair. The most notorious deadspots are around Chew Magna where the lake is a popular place for water sports and fishing.

So there you go - by area Somerset has poor GSM service but most of the population get a fair service. Not much in the way of 4G away from Bath though.

It doesn't have top be that way. The uber rural ( and very hilly ) county of Rutland has the fastest rural broadband in the country as well as a pretty big lake for water sports and fishing. Mobiles work fine. They also have working stocks which could be used for scammers.

Multum in Parvo

......and, of course, when electric light eventually became safe, gas lighting was still necessary in some areas/situations!!

We lived in a caravan, and had a (before it's time) wood burning stove - and gas lights.

Oh! How old fashioned, and quaint some may say - get into the 21st century!!
Well, no.
The caravan was temporary accommodation, and in the middle of a field.
In that situation, only a fool would pay to have electricity cables put in - or mains drainage for that matter!
We DID have a standpipe for water - but only because it had been put in to fill the cattle troughs.
The loo was a bucket in a shed.

So, in certain situations, electricity AND mains drainage is impractical - as would a mobile phone in that place.

Around ten years ago, well before she got a bus pass, my wife was adamant she didn't want a laptop, even less a mobile phone. Now she wouldn't be without either although she doesn't go on-line with her phone other than to check emails and messges.

Unfortunately some of the arguments re not wanting to embrace change are pretty much akin those that were being proffered when oil lamps were replaced by candles, candles by gas lamps, gas lamps by electric, filament bulbs by led's, etc.....!

Of course, maggie ......

we should indeed celebrate choice rather than denigrating those who are not doing as one person wants everyone to do ............... that's a dictatorship, and a petty dictator in charge of it.

Moot point about signal, Liz. My brother quite often works in Somerset - near Luxborough to be precise, he's renovating a building there.
The nearest place a fairly steady mobile signal can be received is in Williton - over 8 miles away. Somerset is atrocious for both mobile and internet connections.
When he moves into the place he will (obviously) get a landline.
Not because (unlike me) he's old enough for a bus pass, not because he's 'trapped in the past' and can't wrench himself away from a landline, but because it's the only way to be sure of being able to contact other people by phone!!

As things stand, if we don't catch him before he goes to Somerset, my sister or I have to text him to ask when he will next be in Williton, as we need to make arrangements to meet him at the building.

So instead of making sweeping and derogatory comments about why people still use landlines, and assuming only landline users receive spam - which is a load of bull - shouldn't the fact that we have choice, and can choose, be rejoiced?

I understand it's risky to carry mobiles close to the body - mine is in my handbag most of the time which is close to my chair. The signal is poor here, so I have to move round the house to hear sometimes, or to have a conversation without being cut off. Landline is best here

Lizx