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Flip Report 22 Mar 2012 21:30

Welcome back Jan!

We would need to find Annie Barrett/Wells death to try to locate any will or probate record as at the moment we don't know where she died. As we don't know which is her birth, the only thing to pinpoint her age would be the marriage certificate from when she married Wilfred Wells (q1/1916 Dewsbury 9b/1233) as the census posted may not be her.

However, as Peter is still waiting for some certificates it may be worth waiting before ordering this one and spending even more money on what may be a dead end.

Who knows, Jacqueline's birth cert. may come back as "adopted" then the traceable trail would go dead.

Peter, let us know what comes out when the other certs arrive or you get more news from records. Hope you have some luck with your dad's cousins/second cousins and the records.


brummiejan Report 22 Mar 2012 11:33

That's very exciting isn't it Peter! I do hope the Cottage Homes records have some interesting info in them.
I don't know much about wills, but it might be you need to contact the County Records Office. No doubt someone on here will know for sure!
I have lost track a bit, so pardon the question, but have we got the name of the grandmother who took Jacqueline in? I am thinking of whether a search for her death is possible.


Peter Report 21 Mar 2012 21:51

Hi -Im rather excited! my wife contacted an archivist at kirklees who has done a search on Derek & David and says there are some records. Apparently no records were kept from Cottage Homes as a rule however some of the homes were run for a short time by charities who do have records. My father has signed the release form tonight so hopefully some time soon we may have some more info. I have explained to my father the restrictions we have on the adoption information.
My father also confirmed again that his paternal grandmother that took Jacqueline was indeed extremely wealthy so I think looking at any inheritance records could be handy (is there such things?).


Flip Report 21 Mar 2012 19:47

Hi Peter,

Derek may not even know he was adopted, not all parents told their children and he was very young at the time they first went into care. Even if he knows, it was only in the 1980s that adoptees were given the right to access their records, and without the internet searches available today research was really difficult.

Keep positive, one of the leads may get somewhere - but if you haven't already done so speak to social services adoption team, they are there to support families affected by adoption - get some advice and guidance from them and sound out what they are willing to do on your dad's behalf.


Sappho Report 21 Mar 2012 05:30

Hello Peter,

Still working on a Charles Barrett Wells who was an Electric Welder in the RAF (A.C.2/100385) – I have managed to locate a list of abbreviations sent to me regarding the information on my Uncle Walter - RAF - killed in action 1942.

I sent for his record and this information came along with it to help me sort out the markings on the sheets.

AC2/AC1 states that this refers to Aircraftman Second/First Class. So slowly we shall get to the bottom of this and the number will show up somewhere. All good things take time. The fact that we have this means the specifics are going to help and RAF are very specific when they search. Fingers crossed!



Peter Report 20 Mar 2012 22:49

Hi there - its terribly sad we may not get any further regarding Derek but we must remember his feelings too and be gracious enough to accept he may not want to know about his biological family.
Jacquelines birth certificate hasnt come - neither has Charlies so i will chse this up!
I didnt get around to writing the letter before my hol, my intentions were to do them this weekend sometime. I may have a lead on this though asearlier today i made contact with somebody on ancestry who i believe is a grandchild of Irene's siblings. I have sent him some information and asked him to confirm.
In hindsight i can vlearly see another thread was not a good idea and it has now been removed. I shall update this thread to include Dereks details.
Im feeling very refreshed after my hols and ready to crack on at this again!
Thanks everyone!


Flip Report 20 Mar 2012 20:48

Hi Peter,
It's better to update your thread title and keep to this thread - that way researchers know what has been done.

Afraid you & your father don't have many rights under the adoption laws - it's only the adoptee who can request the original adoption file etc.

This website has a lot of information which may help your understanding:

There are various websites, but your father should register on the adoption contact register in the hope that Derek is looking for family - info and proceedure from here:

Another alternative is to contact the local social services, now you are armed with the birth certificate and proof he was adopted. They may help and check files to see if there is any request for family contact - and they may agree to hold a letter on file in case Derek ever contacts them in the future.

Did you get Jacquelines birth certificate yet - just wondering if she was also adopted?

At least your father has the knowledge that his brother went to a family and didn't stay in care or get shipped abroad - I hope that is some small comfort.


ADDED: forgot to ask, did you get any replies to the letters you sent to the other possible children of your grandmother's siblings- to throw any more light on this? Any clue can proove valuable, believe me!


Peter Report 20 Mar 2012 11:43

I've started another thread for Derek Wells - not sure this was the right thing to do,,, should I remover it??


Peter Report 20 Mar 2012 09:26

HI Everyone - sorry I've not been on, I've been on holiday and came back to a broken laptop! Apologies for not telling you in advance>
I also came back to a birth certificate that's a massive step in the right direction regarding my dad's brother. Derek Rodney Wells was born on 29th January 1944 and the birth certificate shows he was indeed adopted. Can anyone point me in the right direction to find adoption records?
Another very interesting thing is that there is no father recorded on the birth certificate!!


Sappho Report 2 Mar 2012 21:42

Just to keep you informed, I have emailed a friend in RAF who has helped with the tracing of my uncle.

I hope he may have some information on Charles Barret Wells who was an Electric Welder in RAF (A.C.2/100385). You never know, he might come up with something - a snippet or two!

I have looked on the Wartime Memories Project where you can read stories and connect with names of those who served in both World Wars. There are no references to CB Wells although two Charles Wells with different middle names - they are pretty sure of their facts so have not included those.

It may be worth putting a request on the site. It fulfilled my request for information and I have my uncles full RAF Record up to and including his final flight i n WW2.

Will let you know how this goes.

Maria (ChCh NZ)


brummiejan Report 2 Mar 2012 14:43

I agree, maybe it's time to hang on and wait for more concrete information to arrive. Peter probably needs to gather his thoughts a bit too with all this flying at him!
Not sure if this has come across - there was quite a bit of PMing a while back about the possible 2nd marriage for Charlie - but Peter is awaiting a reply from the person with him in their family tree.


Flip Report 2 Mar 2012 14:37

Thought you'd found another marriage! Not easy to find the Annie Wells death like you say there are too many possibilities but none in Dewsbury and she could have gone anywhere.

I wonder if there is a probate record for the James Hesketh Wells from the 1911 census?

Looks like he was born 1856 Shoreditch, married Emily Ann Bairstow in Halifax 1876 and died in dewsbury in 1923 (think she died Dewsbury 1919 but haven't found her birth).

Not sure we can go much further with this until some of the certificates turn up, or Peter gets any more information from relatives. I haven't had much luck in tracing any more of the Watson descendants.


brummiejan Report 2 Mar 2012 12:46

Sorry, Flip, should have said there are no deaths Dewsbury as far as I can see, but there are a few in the West Riding, including one in Bradford as it happens, so impossible to pin down really. And she could have gone anywhere of course!


Flip Report 2 Mar 2012 12:28

Jan, you referred to deaths for Annie Kerr - but I hadn't found anything to connect her to that name? Just checking if I'd missed a marriage.


brummiejan Report 2 Mar 2012 12:19

Flip, not sure about that 2nd marriage query?

The only thing I wondered was whether Annie re-married after Wilfred died, as she was only about 44, but I would thin the family would know about this.



Flip Report 2 Mar 2012 12:17

Looks like 3 births Bradford 1890/91 so not so straight forward. Jan have you found a second marriage for Annie to a Kerr?


brummiejan Report 2 Mar 2012 12:07

I found her, but she is a servant so not too helpful. And there are a lot of Annie Kerr deaths with a birth year 1891-ish so not as promising as Wilfred. Not even given a birthplace!

EDIT I lie, on original she is born Bradford - that makes it rather promising!

Here she is though:

1911 England Census

Name: Anne Barrett
Age in 1911: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Civil parish: Morley
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: Oakedale Morley
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Domestic Servant General
Registration district: Dewsbury
Registration District Number: 503
Sub-registration district: Morley

Reginald Hasgall 25
Mabel Hasgall 23
Dorothy Brodley 20
Ella Brodley 6/12
Anne Barrett 20


Flip Report 2 Mar 2012 11:59

Thanks Jan, you're doing a pretty good job yourself!! Lets hope Peter can get somewhere with all this.

There's an Anne Barrett on the 1911 census in Dewsbury, I think born 1891 - could be worth checking? No sub for this I'm afraid.


brummiejan Report 2 Mar 2012 11:54

Well done Flip - you are doing a fab job, good thing you are on board! Surely with all this information something will turn up to help Peter?


Flip Report 2 Mar 2012 11:45

Still thinking of trying to find more of Irene's siblings to see if we can track any of them down - or at least their children. As they were close to Alice, had a look at her possible children - Laura looked promising, but think she died in 2001.

I can't find a death for Alice's son George, but it looks like he may have married Anne M in 1961. Can't find a death for her either, but has a George and Anne M in Dewsbury, over 65 and still on the 2012 ER. I can't find a phone number, but will PM the address - it's got to be worth checking. IF he is the right one he would be older than Sandra and may remember more.