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I am looking for relations or information on John Fitzpatrick Robson born March 31, 1909 and passed on December 1, 1945. His parents where William and Mary Jane Robson. He was born in Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland England. He was in the Royal Navy and was laid to rest in the Azores. I have not been able to find out if he had any children or siblings. If anyone has any information on him I would love to hear about it.
Keeping my fingers crossed, please don't be shy.
Christina

From CWGC

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2814876/ROBSON,%20JOHN%20FITZPATRICK

ROBSON, JOHN FITZPATRICK

Rank: Petty Officer Cook (O)
Service No:P/MX 85432
Date of Death:01/12/1945
Age: 36
Regiment/Service:Royal Navy H.M.S. Hesperides.
Grave Reference: Grave 35.
Cemetery: HORTA (DO CARMO) CIVIL CEMETERY

Additional Information:
Son of William and Mary Jane Robson; husband of Elizabeth Robson, of Sandyford, Newcastle-on-Tyne.

For our benefit

John Fitzpatrick Robson
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 120

Assuming he used his middle name when he married, and that it was close to 'home', possibly

JOHN F
Last name ROBSON
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1938
Registration month -
Spouse's last name ALLEN
District NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE
District number -
County Northumberland
Country England
Volume 10B
Page 145
MarriageFinder™ JOHN F ROBSON married ELIZABETH ALLEN

There are NC reg Robson/Allen births to 1949, so possible not that one
.............

JOHN
Last name ROBSON
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1940
Spouse's last name MCCABE
District NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE
District number -
County Northumberland
Country England
Volume 10B
Page 386

MarriageFinder™ JOHN ROBSON married
ELIZABETH J MCCABE

Same problem - New Castle births mid 1946 & 1948

JOHN
Last name ROBSON
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1929
Spouse's last name BEANEY
District MORPETH
District number -
County Northumberland
Country England
Volume 10B
Page 756

MarriageFinder™ JOHN ROBSON married
ELIZABETH BEANEY

No births shown on Freebmd

Hi,
Thank you for responding.
I was able to come up with most of the information, I didn't know his wife's maiden name or exact date of marriage. How do you look for children of the couple, I get stuck with that. How can I see if he had brothers and sisters, nieces nephews and hopefully someone alive?
John can very possibly be my grandfather and I would like to try and prove it somehow just to give my mom the happiness of knowing who exactly her dad was before she goes from this world.
My mom is the product of a love affair from WWII, I only know of him being John and that he was English and was in the Navy and had passed when my mom was born and it had happened in the ocean there in the Azores. I have been looking for years, but these past few months ago something came across me to look for John who was in the Navy and died there in the Azores, sure enough there he was. And my mom remembers going as a girl a lot to the cemetery with my grandmother, so this person can surely be him. I would just need to find a living relative willing to do DNA to prove it. Any help is appreciated.

We tend to use the site FreeBmd to look for vital events.

In the case of births from mid 1911 enter the father's surname and mothers maiden name. As your John died in 1940 select the year the possible couple married and say 1950 to eliminate males who lived past then.
Although there was no guarantee any child was born in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, selecting that as a reg district helps to filter possible results.

The first result is the only listing on Findmypast for a marriage in NC where the John uses a middle name of F and marred an Elizabeth. There is always the possibility that they didn't marry in that area, or that Elizabeth wasn't her first name.

Widening the search there are a number of other marriages for a John Robson to an Elizabeth in Northumberland & Durham which should be explored.

As the mmn isn't shown on the birth reg until mid 1911, it would be necessary to find John F on the 1911 census with his parents to see how many children they declare to have been survived. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find one to match. Someone else might be able to.

Although Ive been assuming they'd have lived in NC, Northumberland or Durham, this may not be the case.

Have you considered this 1911 census for john........

John Robson in the 1911 England Census
Name: John Robson
Age in 1911: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1909
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Gateshead, Northumberland, England
Civil Parish: All Saints
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Street address: 47 Melbourne St Newcastle On Tyne
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne

Household Members:

Mary Jane Robson 31 Gateshead, Durham (Married 8 yrs...3 children living)
Theresa Robson 7 Gateshead, Northumberland
Robert Robson 4 Gateshead, Northumberland
John Robson 2

As John's middle name was "Fitzpatrick" this is possibly his parents marriage.......


Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
Fitzpatrick Mary Jane Newcastle T 10b 122
Robson William John Newcastle T. 10b 122

FreeBMD show several Robson/Fitzpatrick births 1911-1925, the majority of them in the reg district of Tyneside.

As you seem to know John Fitzpatrick's dob, does that mean you have a copy of his BC? What is his mother's maiden name?

If you don't have a copy, then it would be well worth ordering one from the gro for £9.25 inc P&P.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

You'd need to register then when you come to the page which asks if the gro reference is known, tick YES. complete the form with the details for JFR as given on the index & posted above.

Another option to consider is to order a copy of JFR’s Naval records at a cost of £30. As he died more than 25 years ago, you should be eligible to do so. They’d still be with the MOD. You are asked to supply the dob. Here’s the link

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/service_records.html
It can take several months for the order to be processed. Although I think the NOK is shown (it is on a rellies 1947 RAF record) it may not be for naval WW2 ones. As he wasn’t married until later, his NOK is his mother.

It should list the vessels he served on – if you can match were the sailed to where your mother was born, it might help in deciding if he is a likely candidate to be her father.

Thank you!
This is so hard, people where not very creative at that time, there are so many with the same names and birthdays its so difficult. In the Azores for example, on the registrations, for example a birth would show, the parents and grandparents names, and then most will add the marriage, children and death, all life events. Is there any site for England that anyone knows of?? How can we find this information, is it on the birth certificates if we order them? Does anyone know if military records come with a photo of the person who served?

This link will tell you what to expect to see on an English and Welsh certificate.
http://www.sog.org.uk/learn/help-getting-started-with-genealogy/guide-three

Scottish ones are different. They are held by the site Scotlandspeople.
http://tinyurl.com/zo8f4ff links to the site – click through the various sections to read about the information recorded.

So far, it would appear that your JFR was born in England. If he married in England then the Marriage certificate would only name his father, if known. Even today only the father is officially recorded on them. Despite legislation and Equal Rights, the UK still has the vestiges of a Patriarchal society! Traditionally a woman assumes her husband’s surname when she marries as do their children. Legally a person can use what ever name they choose, as long as it isn’t used for fraudulent purposes.
We often advise researching the names of the witnesses as they are frequently, but not always, family members.

You ask if his naval records would contain a copy of his photo. In short – I personally don’t know. The 1947 RAF ones certainly don’t.

There are a number of on-line family history research sites which may feature John Fitzpatrick Robson's ancestors but it really depends if someone has taken an interest in researching his and pulling all the information together into a 'Tree'.
There's this one of course, Ancestry.co.uk, My Heritage, and Familysearch.org. There are probably others. Although family search is free to all, the others tend to be subscription sites.

I will try those sites. Thanks so much for your help. So far I know his name when, where and how he was born and died. I know he was born in new castle upon Tyne, His parents where William Robson and Mary Jane Fitzpatrick, he married a mary Elizabeth for which I have two contenders either Pearson or Allen. I don't know how to go about finding out if there where children. Maybe the sites you gave me will help, keeping my fingers crossed. Too bad that DNA ancestry sites don't match the families up.

What documentation do you actually possess? It's totally wrong to be making assumptions.

For a start, you need his BC to confirm his mothers maiden name. Then you need copies of the possible marriage certificates to see if the name of his father & the occupations are correct. As mentioned earlier, witnesses may be from 'his' side of the family.

Only once you've confirmed that you're on the right track can you look for living relatives. If you were to find one, they could be resistant to the idea that their grandfather or whatever had fathered a child outside of marriage.

Using a British idiom - get your ducks in a row :-D

Confirmation of JFR's parents names...



Joannes Fitzpatrick Robson

England Births and Christenings

Name Joannes Fitzpatrick Robson
Gender Male
Christening Date 18 Apr 1909
Christening Place St. Dominic, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Father's Name Wm. John Robson
Mother's Name Mariae Joannis Fitzpatrick

St Dominic's is the RC Church serving the area where the family were living in Melbourne St. (1911)

Erin, thank you, I do have that exact christening information.
Detective, I have Johns buriel information from the navy, it shows , vessel, dates, parents, spouse. I have certification of how he passed. Along with a few more items. The only thing missing is a living relative willing to confirm what is speculated.
Of course if I where to find a living relative they could be resistant, but hoping for the best. A lot of people would like to know these things, no one who is now still living is at fault of any of it, that is what looking into your ancestry is all about, discovering who we are, my mother would merely like to know exactly who her father was. You can't imagine how many times I have seen her cry for a man she never met. This was during a major war, a time of uncertainty which I can't even imagine. During those times there where so many children born to women without a father listed.

Christina – we do understand where you are coming from. However, your opening post implied that you only had the details from the commonwealth war graves commission site, rather than other documentation. We/you do need to follow a paper trail which often costs money.

Erinborough posted the baptism which until then ‘we’ didn’t know you had. In light of that, the 1911 census & marriage reference between William John Robson & Mary Jane Fitzpatrick posted earlier by Pricklyholly are probably correct rather than supposition.

You’ve said you are considering 2 marriages for JFR – the certificates should give his fathers name of William or William John. You’d be well advised to purchase them for a cost of £9.25 each from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
All credit cards are accepted. If it isn’t a card issued by a UK bank and charged in sterling, the supplier will convert the GBP to Euros or the local currency.

Once you’re confident that you’ve found the correct marriage, we can look for living descendents.

On a separate note – if someone is helping you off board (by Private Message) could you or they please post on the thread what information they’ve sent you? It can be really irritating for other people to spend their time looking for information only to discover that it’s been sent by PM.

Hi,
Understood. I am going to order the two certificates. I am traveling to the Azores next week and will be back on August 7th, so unfortunately if they come while I am away I won't see them and will have to put it on hold a bit. Believe it or not I came across most of the information that I aquired with your help from sites that you have pointed me to these past days, when I started I only had the war graves information which had everyone's names, birthplace and date and was stuck there. I am doing this alone, I don't have anyone helping me from outside. I found the two Elizabeth's on Friday and last Wednesday found a military document that I had not seen that states how John died. Would you happen to know if they send the certificates electronically or via mail only?

The GRO sends certificates by snail-mail.
When you do order them, somewhere around the 'checkout' stage one of the responses will tell you an anticipated date of despatch. Depending on how busy they are, on average it's 4 working days after order. It's posted 2nd class.

Although there were plans to digitalise the records, the project ran out of money!

Christina - Its been confirmed that (RAF) WW2 records give details of the serviceman's marriage, his wife's maiden name, and the names/dob of their children.

If we were to assume that the Naval ones follow the same format, it might be worth buying JFR's records