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Uncle's date of birth?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

David

David Report 16 Dec 2013 15:29


My late uncle,was killed in action during WW11 serving in RN

His name was Ralph Atkinson. He was serving as a stoker first class on HMS corvette BLUEBELL. This vessel was a mine sweeper escorting Russian Convoys in 1944.

It was torpedoed and sank.

I cannot find his DOB for my tree

Can any one assist please?

Staffs Col

Staffs Col Report 16 Dec 2013 16:53

Do you have a place of birth?

First Name:
Ralph

Initials:
R

Surname:
Atkinson

Nationality:
British

Date of Death:
17/02/1945

Rank:
Stoker 1st Class

Service Number:
P/KX 178266

Panel 89 column 3 of the Portsmouth Naval Memorial - no age on death recorded on memorial

David

David Report 16 Dec 2013 17:06


I believe he was born in Newcastle upon Tyne but not certain Staffs Col

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 16 Dec 2013 18:54

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1331207

(above looks to relate)

Chris :)

David

David Report 17 Dec 2013 15:20


Yes,that was me Chris.Despite knowing his date of death and service number etc I am still unable to find his date of birth.

BatMansDaughter

BatMansDaughter Report 17 Dec 2013 16:44

Hi,

Who was Ralph's fathers first wife? Could Ralph have been your mothers elder half brother?

David

David Report 18 Dec 2013 13:30


My GF Thomas Atkinson's first wife was Margaret Cunningham

I don;t know her death date so I don't know if there is a possability of her being Uncle Ralph's Mother.

From the little I heard of Ralph he was young when he was killed, about 2 or 3 years older than my Mother who was born 1/1/1929

KempinaPartyhat

KempinaPartyhat Report 22 Dec 2013 16:14

Cant you get his death certificate then use that to trace a birth?

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 22 Dec 2013 18:51

Did you send for his service records, as suggested on the other thread?

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/royal_navy.html

If you wanted to order the DC from gro.gov.uk use the following reg details

GRO WAR DEATHS NAVAL RATINGS INDICES (1939 to 1948)
First Name RALPH
Last Name ATKINSON
Year 1945
Rank Stoker 1st class
Ship Or Unit BLUEBELL
Volume 1
Page 121
Record Source GRO War Death Naval Ratings Indices (1939 to 1948)
Record set British nationals armed forces deaths 1796-2005
Record collection Deaths & burials
Category Births, Marriages & Deaths
Collections from Great Britain

David

David Report 23 Dec 2013 10:47


Thank you Detective,good idea

alviegal

alviegal Report 25 Dec 2013 11:27

Can't help with his date of birth but wondering if you knew about this site.

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/crews/

It has pictures of the ships in question and also tells you in detail what happened and where it happened.

David

David Report 2 Jan 2014 10:43


Very kind of you alviegal,I already had that German one,also have the entire Bluebell crew named and ranked.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 4 Jan 2014 16:59

Get his death cert it will give you his age :-)

mgnv

mgnv Report 6 Jan 2014 08:00

His d.cert should give his age, but I'm not so sure it will seeing as the military fill it out, and the military were unable to give his age to the CWGC.


JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 10 Jan 2014 00:11

the info in the other thread was such a hash and doled out so sparingly ... but it comes down to this when made straightforward


'My GF Thomas Atkinson's first wife was Margaret Cunningham
I don;t know her death date so I don't know if there is a possability of her being Uncle Ralph's Mother.'

well there is an easy way to find out ... search for the birth of a Ralph Atkinson with mother Cunningham ... and there is none


'His Father was Thomas Atkinson b1880 - d1957
His Mother was Janet Alice Dodds b1883 - 1944'

actually the facts as eventually stated were

mother was Janet Alice Stuart who married first and became Dodds

while estranged from Dodds she lived with Atkinson and had son Ralph before second marriage to Atkinson

Marriages Sep 1928
Atkinson Thomas Dodds Newcastle T. 10b 225
Dodds Janet A Atkinson Newcastle T. 10b 225


Whatever Ralph's surname at birth his mother's surname should have been Stuart

unless she obfuscated and pretended she was Miss rather than Mrs Dodds ...

Of course the first problem comes when we find there is no Janet Stuart marriage to a Dodds.


Could he have been born in Kendal district and possibly not be Mr Atkinson's son at all?

Ralph D Potter 1923 Kendal, mother Stuart

is the only Ralph with mother Stuart who comes remotely close to fitting


however, not only is there no Stuart-Dodds marriage, there is no Janet Stuart birth

so I am suspecting Scotland .......... ?

......... no, I should have checked this one when I thought of it

Births Dec 1884
STEWART Janet Alice Newcastle T. 10b 99


right, mother's surname STEWART. Not Stuart.

Name: Ralph Stewart
Mother's Maiden Surname: Stewart
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1920
Registration District: Tynemouth
Inferred County: Cumberland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 710

I believe that will probably be your man but only the certificate will tell who his mother was, and it will not have a father's name.

there is still no Stewart-Dodds marriage but we'll leave that for another day .........

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 10 Jan 2014 00:54

And now I notice that there is a PAGE 2 of the other thread (how did I miss it ...)

and KathleenBell already found most of this

and David COMPLETELY IGNORED the fact that the people in question were

Janet Alice STEWART not Stuart
and William John DODD not Dodds who died in 1926
who married in 1902

and just repeated all the incorrect information again in this thread

:-|


for info I suspect this was Janet in 1911 minimizingher age slightly as she was older than her husband

Name: Janet Dodd
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Newcastle On Tyne
Civil Parish: Elswick
County/Island: Northumberland
Street Address: 22 Greenhow Place Newcastle On Tyne
Registration District: Newcastle upon Tyne

John Wm Dodd 24
Janet Dodd 24
Ethel May Dodd 11/12


which would mean David that your mother had at least another half-sibling

Births Jun 1910
DODD Ethel May Newcastle T. 10b 78

since there have been nearly 50 Ethel M Dodd marriages, she would not be easy to trace

(edit - unfortunately she seems to have died in childhood in 1912 in Newcastle)

there were apparently also several Stewart-Dodd marriages as there are numerous births after 1911 but none before 1920 so it would appear there were no further children and the couple may have become estranged soon after 1911

however --- a member of this site has Ethel M Dodd 1910 Newcastle in their tree
- edit - wrong Ethel, wrong Newcastle

........... and absolutely astoundingly David YOU have Janet STEWART in your tree.


edit 18 Jan

Births Mar 1925
DODD Ralph Dodd Newcastle T. 10b 237

?
DODD Ralph Dodd Newcastle T. 10b 237