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seeking DOB of RN stoker first class Ralph Irvine

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 10:56

Good Morning.I am seeking the DOB of my Uncle,Stoker first class Ralph Atkinson RN.

He was killed in action when his vessel HMS Corvette Bluebell was sunk while escorting WW11 Russian Convoys in early 1945.

His Father was Thomas Atkinson b1880 - d1957
His Mother was Janet Alice Dodds b1883 - 1944

He was born and lived in Newcastle upon Tyne

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 8 Sep 2013 11:05

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2491123/ATKINSON,%20RALPH

No age which doesn't help

ATKINSON, RALPH

Rank: Stoker 1st Class
Service No P/KX 178266
Date of Death: 17/02/1945
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
H.M.S. Bluebell
Panel Reference Panel 89, Column 3.
Memorial PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:08

How was his surname Irvine if his parents were Atkinson and Dodds?

This is the marriage of his parents:-


Name: DODDS, Janet A
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1928
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Atkinson
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 225

Name: ATKINSON, Thomas
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1928
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name: Dodds
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 225

The only Atkinson/Dodds births in Northumberland that I can see are these two:-


Name: ATKINSON, Sarah E
Registration district: Castle Ward
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1934
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Dodds
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 538

and:-


Name: ATKINSON, Ralph
Registration district: Border
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1942
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Dodds
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 956

The Ralph in the above record wouldn't be old enough to be in the war and there seems to be other Atkinson/Dodds marriages that are more likely to have produced these two children.

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:17

If this is his mother's death then she wasn't born in 1900:-

Name: ATKINSON, Janet A
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1944
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death: 61
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 179

Had your Ralph's mother been married previously?

Kath. x

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:23

Thank you Kathleen Bell for spotting MY error

IRVINE is my family nane

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 8 Sep 2013 11:29

If Janet was born c1883, and the marriage found above is correct, she'd have been 45.

Although its possible to bear a child at that age, it's a bit iffy. Could Ralph have been adopted, or the child of a sibling?

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:29


I have Janet Alice Atkinson's death certificate here on the desk .

She died thiteeneeth of December 1944


Thank you again for spotting MY error

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 8 Sep 2013 11:30

Just throwing this into the mix - probably not relevant as it's not Newcastle.

Deaths Jun 1945 (>99%)
Atkinson Ralph 56 Sunderland 10a 623

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:33

You will find the address to contact for his records here (his records should give his date of birth (although people often lied about their age so the year could be out a bit):-

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/royal_navy.html

Kath. x

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:33


At the time of Ralph's birth my GF was a widower and my GM was a widow but they hadn't yet married.Their marriage occured Twenty second of September 1928

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:36

Are you absolutely certain that your Uncle was the one who died whilst in the Navy?

It's just that I can't seem to find a birth for him unless his parents lived together for a time before getting married???

Kath. x

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:38

Have you any idea of Janet's maiden name?

Kath. x

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:38



Not the one Detective.
Uncle Ralph's Corvette Bluebell was torpedoed 1945

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:40



His Mother Janet's birth year was 1883

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:42

Could this be Ralph's birth (listed under his mother's name at the time):-


Name: DODDS, John R
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne
County: Northumberland
Year of registration: 1921
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Dodds
Volume no: 10B
Page no: 100

The middle initial could be for Ralph if he was known by his middle name.

Kath. x

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 8 Sep 2013 11:45

"my GM was a widow" - so she was the widow Mrs ?????

Unless she lied, Ralph would be assumed to be the son of her deceased husband.

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:46


Janet Alice Became Mrs Atkinson

Before she married she had been a widow named Janey Alice Dodds

Her maiden name was Stuart,daughter of Thomas William Stuart.

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 8 Sep 2013 11:47

The birth I posted above for John R. Dodds should have a different mother's maiden name if she was in fact a widow at the time.

None of this seems to add up!!!

Kath. x

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 8 Sep 2013 11:49

First marriage?

Marriages Dec 1917 (>99%)
Dodds Janet A Walker Newcastle T. 10b 301
Walker Frederick J Dodds Newcastle T. 10b 301

David

David Report 8 Sep 2013 11:50



She was the widow Mrs J A Dodds detective