Military Chat

1861 shows my Irish ancestor James BRYAN (bc1836 Cork) was in the '55th Regiment of Infantry'

Can anyone help with any information please.

('Google' indicates there was an army base in Lucknow).

Thanks - Valerie

Google search - Information here about the Regiment - (also other entries)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/55th_(Westmorland)_Regiment_of_Foot


Regiment returned home in 1857 after the Crimean War and then was deployed to India in 1863


https://wiki.fibis.org/w/55th_Regiment_of_Foot

Is this your James -

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Farnborough, Hampshire, England

First name(s) James
Last name Bryan
Relationship Soldier
Marital status Unmarried
Sex Male
Age 27
Birth year 1834
Occupation Private
Birth town -
Birth town as transcribed -
Birth county -
Birth county as transcribed -
Birth place (other) Ireland
Birth place other as transcribed IRELAND
Street -
Parish Farnborough
City or borough -
County Hampshire
Country England
Municipal ward -
Parliamentary borough -
Registration district Farnborough
Enumeration district -
Archive reference RG09
Piece number 435
Folio 78
Page 14

Ancestry's version of that 1861 says that man was in "Foot Regiment 29 North Camp Farnbobrough".

There's no mention of the 55th on any of the 39 pages of the record..

James Bryan
in the 1861 England Census
Name: James Bryan
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: 1834
Relation: Soldier
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Farnborough
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Farnborough
Sub-registration District: Farnborough
ED, institution, or vessel: Foot Regiment 29 North Camp Farnborough
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 1
Piece: 435
Folio: 78
Page Number: 14


There are a number of men named James Bryan, born c1836-ish in Cork or just "Ireland" in various army units in 1861.

Can't see any 1861 census record for any James Bryan in the 55th regiment.

The 'cover' for the 1861 Enumeration Book as per above census is 29th Regiment of Foot...and that man was 27 years old

Would you C&P the record to which you refer, please.

The 29th (Worcestershire) Regiment of Foot was an infantry regiment of the British Army, raised in 1694. Under the Childers Reforms it amalgamated with the 36th (Herefordshire) Regiment of Foot to become the 1st Battalion, the Worcestershire Regiment in 1881.
Colors: Yellow Facings
Engagements: War of the Spanish Succession: ...?
Garrison/HQ: Norton Barracks, Worcestershire?
March: Royal Windsor, 1791
?History · ?Garter Star badge · ?Regimental Colonels

Thank you for your comments. Not sure if that's him you've found in Farnborough.

1871 Census - shows my James Bryan & Catherine (nee Collins) -plus young family living in London. (also have him/them in following years London).

I have on file -a brief note showing..'.James Bryan ....1861 ..55th Regiment Infantry... (age) 26yrs.'

Unfortunately I haven't any more info at present. Unsure where I managed to find that snippet. - I'm sorry to have so little info to offer.
I'm hoping to find out more of James ....being in the '55th Regiment of Infantry'

Thanks - Valerie

James
Last name Bryan
Birth year 1834
Birth parish Bantry
Birth town Bantry
Birth county Cork
Birth country Ireland
Service number 3734
Rank Private
Regiment 55th Regt Of Foot
Year 1854
Attestation date 20 Oct 1854
Attestation age years 20
Discharge corps 55th Regt Of Foot
Discharge service number 3734
Document type Discharge
Archive reference WO 97
Series Wo 97 - Chelsea Pensioners British Army Service Records 1760-1913
Box 1557
Box record number 74
Archive
The National Archives
Country Ireland

discharged parkhurst sept 1856 unfit

1871
East Lane, Greenwich, London & Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Bryan Head - Male 30 1841 - Ireland --- bantry
Catherine Bryan Wife - Female 27 1844 - Ireland
M Ann Bryan Daughter - Female 6 1865 - Kent, England
Ellen Bryan Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Kent, England
Elizabeth Bryan Daughter - Female 0 1871 - Kent, England

Mary Ann
Last name Bryan
Birth quarter 3
Birth year 1864
Mother's maiden name Collins
District Greenwich
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 672

James
Last name Bryan
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1863
Registration month -

, Catherine Collins
District Greenwich

from ancestry
Name: Private James Bryan
Enlistment Age: 20
Discharge Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1834
Birth Place: Bantry, Cork
Enlistment Year: 1854
Discharge Year: 1856
Regiment: Fifty Fifth REGT. OF Foot
Regimental Number: 3734

WOW! ...'yes' ..thank you - that's him/them.

I have just uncovered a note here - of his birth ... 'Milford' Cork 30/9/1835.
(parents John & Mary Brien (nee Leary) .. (Possibly nr Bantry).

(his birthplace details from a 'Roots Ireland' volunteer ... some years ago).

Thank you for all contributions- I shall print/save all this info - and next try the 'Chelsea Pensioner's'.Office.

Thanks again- Valerie
.




.

this one
James
Last name Brien
Birth year -
Baptism year 1835
Baptism date 30 Sep 1835
Parish Freemount
Alternative parish names Milford
Diocese Cloyne
County Limerick, Cork
Country Ireland
Father's first name(s) Jn
Father's last name Brien
Mother's first name(s) Mary
Mother's last name Leary
Repository
National Library of Ireland
National Library of Ireland register http://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000633758#page/1/mode/1up

nowhere near bantry :-(

Presumably you have worked back to James Bryan and Catherine Collins through their descendants, checking mmns?

There are other couples named James and Catherine Bryan/Brien in London, also born in Ireland.

Unless there's something on the marriage cert to indicate that he had been a soldier, there's nothing obvious to prove that the James in the 55th is the same man.

YOBs are unreliable - and certainly don't match in the records Maddie has posted.

In 1871 the James who married Catherine Collins is said to be born c1841.
1881 also gives his YOB as 1841.
So does 1891.
1901 says c1840

maybe
James
Last name Brien
Birth year -
Baptism year 1834
Baptism date 14 Feb 1834
Residence Mo?olm
Parish Caheragh
Alternative parish names Caharagh
Diocese Cork and Ross
County Cork
Country Ireland
Father's first name(s) Danl
Father's last name Brien
Mother's first name(s) Cathe
Mother's last name Collins
Repository
National Library of Ireland
National Library of Ireland register http://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632637#page/1/mode/1up

edit
Daniel
Last name Brien
Address Dunmy
Marriage year 1834
Marriage date 25 May 1834
Parish Drimoleague
Alternative parish names Drimoleague and Drinagh, Drinagh
Diocese Cork and Ross
Spouse's first name(s) Catherine
Spouse's last name Collins
Spouse's address Drinah
County Cork
Country Ireland
Repository
National Library of Ireland

J?
Last name Brien
Birth year -
Baptism year 1843
Baptism date 11 Dec 1843
Parish Bantry
Diocese Cork and Ross
County Cork
Country Ireland
Father's first name(s) Danl
Father's last name Brien
Mother's first name(s) Catha
Mother's last name Connor
Repository
National Library of Ireland
National Library of Ireland register http://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632488#page/1/mode/1up


CAHERAGH

This mostly rural parish lies between Drimoleague and Ballydehob and between Skibbereen and Bantry.

This man , a solder in Greenwich/Woolwich, would seem to be a better fit with the James in the censuses, re age and location:

James Bryan
in the 1861 England Census
Name: James Bryan
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: 1839
Relation: Soldier
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Woolwich
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:: [ Gunner ]
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Greenwich
Sub-registration District: Woolwich Dockyard
ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Artillery Barracks
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 1
Piece: 405
Folio: 116
Page Number: 10


Why do you think that James c1841 (in the censuses) was ever a solder?


EDIT:
But maybe this is that man in the RA:

James Bryan
in the 1881 England Census
Name: James Bryan
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Gender: Male
Where born: Wexford, Ireland
Civil Parish: Minster in Sheppey
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: Military Barracks Garrison Sheerness
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Bombardier [ RA ]
Registration District: Sheppey
ED, institution, or vessel: The Military Barracks
Neighbors:
Piece: 980
Folio: 109
Page Number: 15
James Bryan 40
Mary Bryan 39 - wife, Bengal, India
Edward Bryan 7 - Calcutta
John Walter Bryan 5 - Morar (?), India
Lawrence Fredk. Bryan 3 - Fort Attock, India


As already said - there are so many James Brien/Bryans born in Ireland, in the army, of about the right age.

1891 census says that James 1841, who married Catherine Collins, was born in Kilerowin.

Perhaps that's Kilroan ??

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/irl/COR/Kilroan

But a good number of miles away from Bantry - approx 54.


There are baptism records for several children named James Bryan or Brien (and other variations) in Cork & Ross Diocese, 1834-42.
None specifically in Bantry or Kilroan/Killowen.

Thank you all - much appreciated.

'Roots-Ireland' findings (volunteer (Gin's) some years ago)
(parents John & Mary Brien (nee Leary)

James O'Brien b30/9/1935 Milford -townland of Kilbolane
sponsers Js Leary/Margaret O'Brien

John Brien (aka 'George') b 2/12/1829 Dunmanway res. 'VAGUS'
( ggrt grandad -joined HEIC c1853 as 'George Brien') (found)

Michael Brien b1831 Bandon (have found)
John/Julia? Brien b24/6/1832 Annakissy (not found)
Margaret Brien b1/12/1837 Passage West Cork " "

Hearsay... .'.family moved to London - at time of famine '- (not found)

Re James:-:
1911 shows his age '76yrs' b Cork ...(.more fitting with birthdate 1835)

Thank you again. (I may well be back!)
Valerie
WAus

Assuming that the James Bryan (1841) who married Catherine Collins is definitely the man you're looking for, and that you've worked back to him through descendants, I'm afraid nothing in your last post above proves that James O'Brien/Brien 1835 is the same man.

Where was James 1835 living in 1911, please?

Do you have the 1863 marriage cert ? If so, what was James's father's name and occupation?

1911

4A Howard Road S Tottenham N, Tottenham, Middlesex, England
James Bryan Head Married Male 76 1835 Private Means Cork Ireland
Catherine Bryan Wife Married Female 66 1845 Private Means Banty Ireland
Elizabeth A De Leeuw Daughter Widow Female 40 1871 Private Means East Greenwich
Gertrude Bryan Daughter Single Female 31 1880 Designer Blouses East Greenwich
Annie Bryan Daughter Single Female 29 1882 Underclothing Machinist East Greenwich



BRYAN, ANNIE COLLINS
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1010

BRYAN, ELIZABETH ANN COLLINS
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 851

In 1901, James was a BRICKLAYER
In earlier years, he was a General Labourer

Ancestry have made a real mess of 1911

Name: Gertrude Ryan
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Greenwich
Civil Parish: Tottenham
Country: England
Street Address: 4A Howard Rd, S Tottenham N
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Designer Blouses
Registration District Number: 132
Sub-registration District: West Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Piece: 7294
Household Members:
Name Age
James Ryan 76
Catherine Ryan 66
Elizabeth A De Lenn 40
Gertrude Ryan 31
Annie Ryan 29

I don't see how you can be certain of anything until you get a copy of the marriage cert

I'm assuming you'd have mentioned if you'd already obtained a copy

Which of James and Catherine's children is your proven direct line?

Thanks , ErikaH.
No wonder I couldn't find any of the family on Ancestry in 1911.