Genealogy Chat

Jo, we are now trying to finding "half cousins" of your dad - he and they all share the same grandmother, Emily Rivers, though a different grandfather (we assume).

I struggled a bit to find the Belcher marriages, till I remembered that Joseph had a middle name, and so do the others:

William Albert, born Wantage, couple of possible marriages.
Ella Louisa, born Wantage m Ernest Raymond 1924, Newbury, died 1970 Newbury.

Others born at Newbury:

Minnie Florence (died 1905, Florence Minnie).
Agnes Jane m Alfred M Emmens 1932, died 1996 Reading.
Alice May m William J Stevens 1927, died 1985 Reading.
George Henry m Ruby A Taylor, 1931 Newbury.
Arthur James - 4 possible marriages.

Jo, I can give you more detail later on some of these e.g. exact dates of birth.

Who deleted?? Did Madmeg botch it, did Joanne come and go, was somebody talkin about moi? ;)

I didn't pursue the children last night because it was very late, even here, and I wanted to see thoughts about the theory before setting off.

With a bit of luck, we really should be able to find cousins of Joanne's dad's generation still living, since their parents would all have been younger than Joanne's dad's father!

I think I would actually start with the tree search here at GR -- allowing a couple of years' leeway on the birthdates in each case, since the people who have Ella Belcher and Emily Rivers don't seem to have had the exact info. People with Emily's children in their tree would seem likely to be Emily's descendants!

Joanne, have you done tree searches before? Just click on the "Search Trees" button up above, enter a name and year of birth, select +/- 2 years, and don't put a place of birth, because people's ideas on that seem to vary. The results list will be short, since these are not Smiths, and you'll be able to tell which ones are yours by the places of birth shown.

Then you click on the "Find out more" button beside the name of the tree owner, to send a message. It is generally recommended that you unclick the box for allowing access to your tree, since you don't yet know your connection with the person. Just explain that you are a great-grandchild of Emiiy Rivers who you think later married Alfred Belcher and you and your dad are eager to meet family members.

Yes Cynthia, I appreciate your comments about the amount of information, but I get the impression Joanne wants to gather as much as she can for her dad. Joanne, please shout out if you want extra help in understanding it all - or if you want me to keep my nose out, and do it yourself (I won't be offended).

Not done terribly well with the half-cousins.

Child of Ella Louisa Belcher and Ernest Raymond:

Dennis Raymond 1925 Newbury. Sadly looks as though he died in 1996.

Ella Louisa Belcher and Robert J Turner had no children.

EDIT - rubbish, she married Ernest Raymond.

Alice May Belcher and William J Stevens are a problem as there are clearly multiple marriages of Miss Belchers to Mr Stevens's.

Probables:

Leslie R Stevens, 1928 Wallingford. Possible death in Oxfordshire 2004.
Edna M Stevens, 1931 Wallingford. Possible marriage to James B Munn, 1952, Wallingford. No death found, so possibly still alive.

Child of George Henry Belcher and Ruby A Taylor:

Arthur J Belcher 1940 Newbury, no death found so likely still alive. In fact, Jo, he's the best bet if you want to contact any of this lot as he's relatively young, though of course that might mean he doesn't know so much about his grandparents.

I'm stopping there to Jo gets back.

It was me who deleted, I hadn't worded it well so started again.

Hi to all my wonderful helpers and a big hello and thanks to Jane, so the troops have been called in Ha! how amazing. So you probably think Iv'e left you all to get on with it when in fact my bleep laptop has blown a gasket!!! typical timing. Cannot get it looked at till Tuesday. Am on a friends for 2 minutes to ask you please please do not give up on me I am still trying to take in all you have written. i promise to try and come here tomorrow to re-read everything. Wouldn' that be just fantastic if we found living relatives, Wow eeeeee!!!! thanks again HAPPY EASTER to you all Jo

Dear all, ain't it great to give someone so much pleasure. Beats filling in tax returns!

Looking forward to hearing how it all works out. Cx.

Just to inform folks, Joanne is still having computer trouble but seems able to get to PMs, not sure why, so I am filling her in with our findings.

Hi my friends!!!! I promise to be back with you all as soon as possible. All this news is amazing thank you thank you thankyou. Happy Easter Love Jo

Hi. Well lets try again for 5 minutes, couldn't believe I have been set up again, went to a friends to get back online to you all only to have her power pack go bang on me and fuse everything in the house. Is someone trying to tell me to stop looking any further I wonder. Anyway news to date: Did as was requested and got in touch with 2 people on here that had Emily on there tree. 1 of them was most kind and opened his tree to me but unfortunately there is nothing on the page, but he did write and say that he was related to Albert - his ggg grandmother was Alberts mother. I really hope this is our Emily this time and if it is I rang the council at Newbury and was given a cemetery and a plot number

She was buried on the 13/11/1918 at Shaw cemetery Newbury she was 49 years young. A great guy called Bob even went to see if there was a headstone for me but apparently not. I said I was most keen to visit and he said ring him anytime and he would arrange to be there for me. He even said as family if we wanted to we could put some sort of marker for her!! although not usual after such a long time. What wonderful people there are out there yourselves included. Still waiting on birth certs and wondering which bit to do next. I am going to visit my dad tomorrow and fill him in on the latest. thanks again and please keep helping. Love Jo

Jo, this is definitely her then, died Dec Qtr 1918, we had her born 1867, but not a problem, it happened.

Is she in a common grave? Could he tell you the other people in there? You are entitled to put a marker or memorial there if they allow it. I have done it with a family member of mine in a common grave. I just wanted it marked with his name. It won't be cheap, unfortunately, cos they all have to conform to safety regulations nowadays.

Or is she in a family grave, i.e. other members of the family in there. He should be able to tell you that. You won't have any statutory entitlements to the grave after so long, I am sure, most last for a maximum of 70 years, some less, so if it is a family grave you would have to "repurchase it" in order to have anyone else buried in it after so long, assuming there is room. They should be able to tell you all that.

I am so glad you have found her, and we will work on those half siblings of your grandad shortly.

Can folks help in any way on what I have already done? I am not convinced I have got it 100%.

And thanks to Janey for coming to the rescue when I asked her to.

Joanne's grandad lost a leg in WW1. So he is a man we are all proud of.

Jo's now on the trail of Alfred Rivers who in 1851-91 is born 1840, in 1901 born 1832, in 1911 born 1834 and on death born 1834. The only post-1837 birth appears to be Mar 1841, St Saviour, and I reckon this is him:

1841 England Census
about Alfred Rivers
Name: Alfred Rivers
Age: 5 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil parish: St Saviour
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: St Saviour
Sub-registration district: St Saviour
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Rivers 35 Publican
Ann Rivers 35
John Rivers 15
Jane Rivers 10
Emma Rivers 8
William Rivers 4
Alfred Rivers 5 Mo

But I'm struggling to find this family in 1851, to "prove" it's not our Alfred.

This could be our Alf in 1851, age 17:

1851 England Census
about John Rivers
Name: John Rivers
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: East Garston, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: East Garston
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hungerford
Sub-registration district: Kintbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
John Rivers 48 Widower
Mary Anneds 24
Alfred Anneds 17
John Thomas Anneds 13
Thomas Anneds 10 Mo Grandson

Mistranscription - Mary Anneds is Mary Anne do (ditto) Rivers 24, the rest are all Rivers. So Alfred is born 1834. They're all Ag Labs born East Garston.

I can't find this family in 1841. EDIT, now found.

So if our Alf was 17 in 1851, how did he become 20 in 1861?

Annabel, is there anything on your cd re a possible baptism of Alfred?

Hiya Meg. Are you looking at A or FMP? Just wondered if there could be a difference in transcriptions of age because that happened to me recently.???? Just a thought - not very useful I admit but......? Cx.

Cynthia, I've looked at the original records. They are clear as bell on the ages.

Margaret

This might be John's marriage:

JOHN RIVERS Pedigree
Male Family

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages:
Spouse: DENE TALBOT Family
Marriage: 23 OCT 1824 East Garston, Berkshire, England
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M018973 1813 - 1835 1279458 IT 14-17 Film NONE

Off to find Dene Rivers in 1841!

No such luck:

Deaths Jun 1840 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RIVERS Denny Hungerford 6 133

In 1841, East Garston has only 13 pages, I have worked through them all. The likely reason that we can't find the family on them is that they are so faint that they aren't readable.

EDIT, the Find My Past people must have better eyes, cos they've found them.

Hi all

keep going though the parish's on my cd, but no luck need Uffington (Woolstone only starts 1849 before then Uffington ) which I do not have, also do not have East Garston, may be the Berkshire records office can help..

Annabel

Hi . still no internet Im afraid but just wanted to thankyou all for still continuing with the mission.