Genealogy Chat

Ah, thanks, I'd missed the significance of that.

The marriage info I posted refers only to her mother's name.................

Those census data reinforce the idea that Elizabeth Clift was 94 at death. Must have led a healthy life :-)

Thank you for the Kiddle references, in fact I had not found those. I believe this Elizabeth Hamilton was the daughter of John and Elizabeth (Clift).

Good morning Reggie!

I'd like to be clear which Elizabeth we are talking about, given that there may have been two.

Elizabeth Hamilton, née Clift, (b. 1776 in Stalbridge Weston - d. 21 June 1870 Beaminster, aged 94), her parents William Clift & Mary Clift née Hobbs (this being someone else's research and in need of substantiation). I've not yet found (or looked for) the marriage of William & Mary.

Elizabeth Hamilton 1776 - 1870, sister of John, if she existed!

I've been unable to find a baptism record for either in Beaminster, the earliest Hamilton baptism I have found there is 1799, child of John & Elizabeth. This might suggest that they arrived in Beaminster (as a family?) between their birth and the birth of their first child.

How did you discover that Elizabeth (which one) was illegitimate?

Keith

1851 census

Person: HAMILTON, Elizabeth Address: Hogshill Street, Beaminster, Salisbury

HAMILTON, Elizabeth Head Widow F 75 1776 Annuitant
Stalbridge, Dorset

No doubt you have the following info, but I'm posting it in case it helps others who may be attempting to assist you in your quest

Name: Edwin Kiddle
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Hamilton
Event Date: 22 Jul 1830
Event Place: Beaminster, Dorset, England
Marital Status: Widowed
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M15803-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1279479
Reference ID: p107 cn320



Name: Edwin Kiddle
Spouse's Name: Martha Sherring
Event Date: 10 Oct 1824
Event Place: Beaminster, Dorset, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M15803-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1279479
Reference ID: p70 cn208

1841 census


Person: HAMILTON, Elizabeth Address: Hog's Hill St, Beaminster

KIDDLE, Edwin M 40 1801 VIEW
KIDDLE, Elizabeth F 35 1806 Dorset VIEW
KIDDLE, Emma F 9 1832 Dorset VIEW
KIDDLE, Edwin M 6 1835 Dorset VIEW
KIDDLE, Hamilton M 3 1838 Dorset VIEW
KIDDLE, Sarah F 1 1840 Dorset VIEW
HAMILTON, Elizabeth F 60 1781 Dorset VIEW
GROVES, Ann F 20 1821 Dorset VIEW
HAYNE, Martha F 15 1826 Dorset

Apologies....wasn't aware of your location.

The snag is....................no-one - at present - knows where either John or Elizabeth was born.

Both were 'of Beaminster' at the time of their marriage, but it doesn't necessarily follow that either of them was born there.

Elizabeth was apparently illegitimate......................which isn't of itself a great help, but, at least, if you do find a baptism, you'll be able to be reasonably confident of its relevance.

Do you know when Elizabeth died? And how old she was stated to be?

Well it's time to sign off for tonight, thanks Lesley and Reggie, I'll pick up any further thoughts in the morning ...

And it was Zoe who introduced me to the records, as you say she is very helpful!

Keith

Keith you can always contact the OPC Zoe Martin she will probably be very helpful.

Good Luck
Lesley x

Thanks Lesley, I've already found some useful dates there - but not for Elizabeth or JH birth unfortunately!

Keith

Hello Keith apart from the family search site which Reggie suggested you might like to try this one too.

http://www.opcdorset.org/BeaminsterFiles/Beaminster.htm

Lesley x

Visiting the County Records Office would be ideal, but as I live in France it's a bit of a challenge :-(

Which was why I was hoping that someone here might be able to help out.

This has so far focused on JH's birth date, any thoughts on the other issues? Maybe a birth date for Elizabeth Clift? To compare with Elizabeth Hamilton?

Keith

No, I don't know why the records differ...........


As for the age at death.........................I'd give more credence to the burial record than to someone else's tree, which, from what you say, does not have any documentary backup

BUT................visit the County Records Office............see what you can find there

Thanks for the other marriage record, that agrees with what I already have, so do you know why the other record says day 6?

The baptisms are their children, although I have my suspicions that one or more of them might belong to another John + Elizabeth pair - although baptism dates are not a reliable guide to birth dates.

How much confidence would you have in the declared age at death? Some people simply didn't know ...

Keith

From the IGI


Name: John Hamilton

Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Clift
:
Event Date: 13 Sep 1795
Event Place: Beaminster, Dorset, England

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M15803-1
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1279479

Unsubstantiated entries on trees should be treated as 'suspect'........at best

Two transcribed records of his burial show his age to have been 74......

here is the other one, which I didn't originally feel it necessary to reproduce.

Forenames:John
Surname:HAMILTON
Abode:
Day:31
Month:May
Year:1837Age:74
Place:Beaminster
County:Dorset
Country:England
Notes:Record source:Dorset Burials
Find out more Data provider:Dorset FHS Transcriptions © Dorset Family History Society

Dorset, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Ann Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 3 Jan 1816 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Robert Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 3 Jan 1816 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: William Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 3 Jan 1816 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Matilda Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 23 Nov 1817 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Charles Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 29 Sep 1819 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: John Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 28 Dec 1799 - Beaminster
VITAL: 28 Dec 1799 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812


BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Thomas Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 28 Dec 1799 - Beaminster
VITAL: 28 Dec 1799 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Catharine Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 31 May 1806 - Beaminster
VITAL: 31 May 1806 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Elizabeth Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 31 May 1806 - Beaminster
VITAL: 31 May 1806 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Mary Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 4 Nov 1810 - Beaminster
VITAL: 4 Nov 1810 - Beaminster, Dorset, England
Dorset, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

BIRTH, BAPTISM & CHRISTENING
NAME: Sarah Hamilton
MOTHER: Elizabeth Hamilton
FATHER: John Hamilton
BAPTISM: 4 Nov 1810 - Beaminster
VITAL: 4 Nov 1810 - Beaminster, Dorset, England

That marriage record matches what I know - almost. I have a record from Beaminster which says the marriage was 13 Sept 1795, the record you found says "Day:6", should that be taken to mean the date of marriage?
Keith