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Lorraine
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25 Mar 2009 11:23 |
Thank you for all your help Evie, Don't know if I will ever find the answer as to where Laura Marshall was born. But have some more ideas to investigate as regards to James Deadman thanks to you! Hopefully will answer the question. thanks again Lorraine
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EvieBeavie
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21 Mar 2009 23:40 |
Same Alice in 1871 - details seem to match with your Laura:
Name: Alice Durham Age: 11 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Pauper Where born: Bishops Frome, Herefordshire, England Civil Parish: Linton County/Island: Herefordshire
and possible relations in the list:
Name: Emma Durham Age: 13 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858 Relation: Pauper Where born: Bishops Frome, Herefordshire, England
Name: William Durham Age: 3 months Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Relation: Pauper Where born: Linton, Herefordshire, England
William is also with Alice in the 1881:
Name: William Duraham Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Inmate Where born: Linton, Hereford, England
The household in 1861 in Bishops Frome:
James Durham 40 Jane Durham 40 Caroline Durham 22 Mary Durham 17 Leah Durham 15 Eliza Durham 12 George Durham 10 Elizabeth Durham 7 Emma Durham 4 Allice Durham 2
Deaths Mar 1884 Durham Alice 25 Bromyard 6a 365
All the facts fit, but still no sign of Laura being born. A Laura Elizabeth Durham in Pancras in 1876 is all.
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EvieBeavie
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21 Mar 2009 23:34 |
So Laura was in Staffordshire in 1901:
Name: Laura Marshall Age: 24 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877 Relation: Servant Where born: Bromyard, Herefordshire, England Civil Parish: Handsworth Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity County/Island: Staffordshire
George Hughes 26 Maud Hughes 26 Laura Marshall 24
For what that might be worth. ;)
A person possibly of interest in 1881: (That's what the name looks like on the image)
Name: Alice Duraham Age: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relation: Inmate Where born: Bishops Froome, Hereford, England Civil Parish: Bromyard County/Island: Herefordshire Street address: "Union Workhouse" Bromyard Occupation: Farm Laborer Registration district: Bromyard Sub registration district: Brockhampton ED, institution, or vessel: Bromyard Union Workhouse
Births Mar 1859 DURHAM Alice Bromyard 6a 498
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Lorraine
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21 Mar 2009 06:21 |
Hi evie,
Thanks for all your kind help!
This is what I know of Laura Marshall
Died 1st Qtr 1915 poss due to childbirth? found on 1891 census age 14 Linton Union workhouse. On the 1911 census her birthplace is listed as Bromyard Herefordshire. A kind lady from this site went to the record office and found the following information:
Laura was admitted to the workhouse Sept 1885 listed as b 1877 with her mother Alice Marshall b 1855. Both were listed as coming from the parish of Bishop's Frome to the south of Bromyard. Sadly it doesn't mean they were born there, but were living there at the time they were admitted.
I couldn't see a death for Alice but in 1888 in a reclassification of people in the workhouse Laura is listed as an orphan. On 25 Feb 1890 at age 13 Laura was discharged to the Worcester Opthalmic Hospital (Eyes) and readmitted to the workhouse on 11 March that year.
Laura left the workhouse on 3rd April 1895 to go into service with a Mrs Hughes at Leigh Malvern but she was readmitted to the workhouse on 2 May that year and her occupation was listed as a servant.
Sadly I couldn't find her final discharge - I searched until 1898 but must have missed it
I also checked the birth's and marriages for both Laura and Alice in the Bishop's Frome parish but there was no sign of any Marshall's
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EvieBeavie
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17 Mar 2009 02:39 |
Did Laura lie about her age too? (What was her reported age on the marriage cert?)
1901
Name: Laura Marshall Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889 Relation: Sister Gender: Female Where born: Farnham, Surrey, England Civil Parish: Aldershot
Arthur Hollett 29 - house servant Elenor A Hollett 26 - retailer of beer Laura Marshall 12 (I read it as 13)
Marriages Jun 1897 Harrington Eleanor Ann Farnham 2a 216 Hollett Arthur Farnham 2a 216
Hollett household in 1891 in Farnham, Surrey:
John Hollett 63 Elizabeth Hollett 50 Arthur Hollett 19 Thomas Hollett 17 Henry Hollett 18 Allen F Hollett 13 Samuel Hollett 11 Herbert R Hollett 7
No Laura.
Harrington household in 1891 in Farnham:
Henry Marshall 28 Harriett Marshall 34 Eleanor Harrington 16 Blanche Harrington 14 Winifred Harrington 12 Frank Harrington 10 Mark Harrington 7 > Laura Marshall 4 Ruth Marshall 2 Edith K Marshall 5/12
Your Laura?
Births Sep 1887 MARSHALL Laura Farnham 2a 118
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EvieBeavie
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17 Mar 2009 02:17 |
Felix Mullins, stepfather in the 1881 household, is a farm labourer. William Dedman in the 1871 household is a farm labourer.
William could have been ex-Grenadier Guard. Or James could have been telling tales.
James Deadman in 1901 is a cowman (ag cattle).
He could well have been in the military in 1916 -- or wait, you haven't said what occupation he gave (on marriage cert and/or children's birth certs).
Aldershot and Mattingley are about 10 miles apart.
Nothing too far off there!
So it's children of James and Emily Fisher you're looking for anyway - ?
You have the Deadman-Marshall marriage cert, and it looks like you'll have to get the Deadman-Fisher marriage cert to figure out who Emiliy was, and make sure Fisher was her name.
I would also get the birth cert for the James born in Hartley Wintney 1874 and see what it has to say, if you're wanting to track down who your James was. Could you maybe give all the info you have? Like - Laura Marshall may have lied about her father, but what did she say about him? James's stated occupation on certificates? Ages on marriage cert?
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Lorraine
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16 Mar 2009 21:40 |
Hi Evie checking the 1911 census James listed as being born in Aldershot Hants.
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Lorraine
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16 Mar 2009 21:37 |
Hi Evie
Thanks for all the info, Yes the children you found for James and Laura are my gt aunts and uncles after these came my Grandfather James Deadman born jul 1913 then there was Jack born and died 1st qtr 1915 same time as Laura so assume she died in childbirth.
Unfortunately no one knows what happened to Laura and Grace thou I have recently been given a picture of Grace as a young lady.
Norman and James were placed in Dr Barnado homes and both ended up in Wales i have been in touch with the gt grandaughter of Norman but her family know even less than mine.
It is extremely frustrating James and Laura's marriage cert is not helpful as the names of the witness's are hard to make out. I think Laura lied about her father as her mother was unmarried . Which makes me wonder if James lied about his father who is named as william deadman Grenadier guard deceased.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:36 |
I wonder whether Jane in 1881 was really James.
No Jane Deadman was born in Hartley Wintney reg dist 1870-1880.
In the 1881 census, searching for people any name born 1873-1877 in Mattingley, there's no one who looks like James.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:32 |
So I missed this by a year before, it seems.
Births Sep 1874 DEADMAN James Hartley Wintney 2c 165
That be your James, I do believe!
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:31 |
In 1881 there are some Deadmans born/living in Mattingley with their remarried mother:
Felix Mullins 33 Emma Mullins 36 Mary Jane Deadman 9 Jane Deadman 7 Fredick Felix Mullins 3 Anne Henrietta Mullins 1
Registration district: Hartley Wintney
I checked Jane -- definitely says Jane, daughter (step).
In 1871 in Mattingley:
William Dedman 34 Emma Dedman 26 Elizabeth Neville 7 William Dedman 2 Fanny Dedman 9 months
No birth as Dedman either, though.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:22 |
1891?
Name: James Deadman Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Mattingley, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Ashe Registration district: Whitchurch
George H Selwood 33 Emma Selwood 36 Alfred H Selwood 10 Edith M Selwood 8 Lillian B Selwood 2 James Deadman 17
And 1881, he's a mystery. Although there's a James 1847, visitor, in Basingstoke, who would be a good candidate for being his father.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:18 |
Well, this is surely him in 1901 -- do you have all this?
Name: James Deadman Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878 Relation: Boarder Where born: Basingstoke, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Church Oakley County/Island: Hampshire Registration district: Basingstoke
Ann Moore 75 Mary Moore 67 James Deadman 23 Hannah Goddard 54
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:10 |
Searching 1876-1880 at FreeBMD, there's James Alfred in Rochford in 1879, and this one:
Births Dec 1877 DEADMAN James Henry G Steyning 2b 285
who would match a census dob of 1878.
And the 1911 has:
DEADMAN JAMES 1878 33 Hackney London DEADMAN JAMES 1881 30 Edmonton Middlesex DEADMAN JAMES ALFRED 1880 31 Rochford Essex
The Edmonton one is:
Births Mar 1881 DEADMAN James Samuel Edmonton 3a 342
The Rochford one is:
Births Sep 1879 Deadman James Alfred Rochford 4a 325
And the one in Hackney is also a match for the James Henry G Deadman born in 1877.
Huh. A spare James Deadman in the 1911.
There are also these two births:
Births Mar 1875 Deadman James Bromley 2a 353
Births Jun 1875 Deadman James Robert W B Abingdon 2c 300
with no good matches in 1911.
The Bromley James is the only one without middle names. I wonder whether he's your best bet?
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:08 |
Your James in 1911, in case you don't have his dob:
DEADMAN JAMES 1878 33 Basingstoke Hampshire DEADMAN LAURA 1880 31 Basingstoke Hampshire DEADMAN GRACE 1909 2 Basingstoke Hampshire DEADMAN WINIFRED 1910 1 Basingstoke Hampshire
If you buy credits, you can see his place of birth details.
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx
searched first for James Deadman living with Laura Deadman, and then searched for all Deadmans in Basingstoke living with Laura Deadman.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 21:03 |
Aha - so there could be intrigue yet!
Your James's first marriage preceded the James Winter marriage, though:
Marriages Dec 1907 DEADMAN James Basingstoke 2c 492 MARSHALL Laura Basingstoke 2c 492
But no birth for him? Unfortunately, no middle name/initial.
And Deadman/Winter was 26 when he died in 1917, so born c1890, a little young to be your James ... Marriage certifiate time!
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Lorraine
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16 Mar 2009 19:37 |
Hi All,
Thank you for all your help!
Sorry, but Yes James Deadman was Married to Laura Marshall she died in 1915 James then married Emily Fisher so this may not have been her first marriage either. Suppose the only way to find out for sure would be to get the marriage cert!
Interesting about the James Deadman/Winter will have to look into this further as I can find no birth record for james Deadman.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 04:14 |
Lorraine, on a board search, I just found this post by you several months ago (in a thread about different Deadmans):
I have Grace Deadman (1908) Laura Deadman (1909) Norman Deadman (1912) James Deadman (1913) all born in Basingstoke There parents were James (c1878) and Laura Deadman nee Marshall Laura Died in 1915 and I believe James remarried but don't know who also not sure where James was born his father was William Deadman Hope this helps if any one has info on this family please let me know.
(I have broken it up into readable pieces as it was all one sentence in the original.)
Shall we assume that this is the James Deadman you are asking about? -- born c1878, previously married to Laura Marshall? And you have now determined that he then married Emily Fisher?
That info would have been useful to start with.
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 03:30 |
Could this be relevant?
Name: DEADMAN, JAMES Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: ALIAS Date of Death: 03/05/1917 Service No: SR/1207 Additional information: See "WINTER," the true family name. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL
Name: WINTER, JAMES Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: Royal Sussex Regiment Unit Text: "A" Coy. 7th Bn. Age: 26 Date of Death: 03/05/1917 Service No: SR/1207 Additional information: (Served as DEADMAN). Son of the late Mrs. C. Winter; husband of Elsie Victoria Carey (formerly Winter), of 4, East St., Hastings. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 6. Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL
That marriage:
Marriages Mar 1912 Johnson Elsie V Winter Hastings 2b 19 Winter James Johnson Hastings 2b 19
and then:
Marriages Jun 1918 Casey James Winter Hastings 2b 75 Winter Elsie V Casey Hastings 2b 75 (i.e. not Carey)
We have certainly seen a couple of bigamous marriages on the boards lately!
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EvieBeavie
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16 Mar 2009 03:24 |
They apparently did not have children -- I searched the complete post-1916 index at Ancestry.
Unless Emily was previously married and Fisher was not her birth surname, so you would have to search for births by whatever her birth surname was.
You would need the marriage certificate to know that, probably. Then if that was the case, search at FreeBMD for
births surname Deadman mother's surname ___
and if there were any births, most would likely be transcribed there by now.
http://www.freebmd.org.uk - click the red Search
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