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You were saying (smug grin!)

Marriages Jun 1928 (>99%)
CARTWRIGHT Charles CLARKE W.Bromwich 6b 1736
CLARKE Lilian CARTWRIGHT W.Bromwich 6b 1736

That marriage was found on this thread:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1232292

Rose

Found a burial. Anyone you know ???

Name: Charles Thomas Cartwright
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 07 Nov 1936
Burial Place: Harborne, Stafford, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02214-2
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1520004
Reference Number: 76
Collection: Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910

Could this be Lilian's birth or have I got the date or place wrong ???

Name: Bertha Lilian Clark
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 04 Apr 1908
Baptism/Christening Place: Smethwick, Stafford, England
Father's Name: John Alfred Clark
Mother's Name: Lilian Rosina Clark:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I05246-6
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 6085662
Reference Number: fiche 17 p 22
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

If William Clarke were of retirement age 50 years ago, then I doubt he's still alive.

Just can't find anything for a Muriel, Stanley and William Clarke with the same mother's maiden name in the Staffordshire area.

Rose

Hi Gael re Charles Thomas Cartwright death, this maybe her husbands death, it's the right area or maybe not, on reflection, if I've got the childrens info correct 2 of them were born after 1936. I'll take a look at this later
Many thanks

Thanks Jonesey, I've looked at this one and it's not him, I managed to find a marriage between Zachariah John Babington & Lydia Court Dec Q 1883 - no wonder he called himself John! Once I'd got the correct first name I found his birth record June Q 1865. He and Lydia continued to live with her father, they both appear on the 1901 and 1911 census and there is no mention of any children.

Anthony, you may have posted this before but I can't find it in amongst all the pages.

William Clarke's children Bill, Stan & Muriel, about what year were they born? I presume they were adults when you were working with him. Have you any idea?

Ozi

Finally it's arrived, copy of Birth certificate for Rosie May: When & Where Born: 1st October 1900, 10 Copley Street, Ecclesall Bierlow, Name: Rosie May, Father: John Babington, Mother: Ellen Babbington formerly Clarke, Occupation of Father: edge tool grinder, Informant: the mark of Ellen Babbington, mother, 10 Copley Streeet
Looks like I've eventually found my grandparents, the 1901 census info puts the family of John, Helen, Helen and Rose at 10 Copley Street, Ecclesall Bierlow. Now looking for a marriage between John & Helen or is it Ellen? Then of course their births, deaths, possible previous & re-marriage for her but, one step at a time..........

Ok

I may add even more confusion here - but look at other spellings. My maiden name is bebbington which is often mis-spelt on census as Bebington, Bevington, Babington and Babbington. Not many of these in Birmingham ( my home town) but beware when looking at recors in Cheshire as very common name around those parts.

Good Luck

Adding more confusion.

There's this John Babington in 1891 who appears to married to Elizabeth, he has more or less the same occupation as John on the birth cert.

Also I think the same one in 1881 and 1871.


1891 England Census
about John Babington
Name: John Babington
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Camden, London, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Bishop Ryder
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England



Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Babington 26 file grinder
Elizabeth Babington 30
Elizabeth Carrington 77 mother in law
Joseph Babington 22 brother born Croydon
Christopher Babington 1
Thomas Carrington 20




1881 England Census
about John Babington
Name: John Babington
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: London Hampstead, London, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: Bishopsgate St Court 20 No 1
Education:


View image
Occupation: Street Orderly Tender (Scay)

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
John Babington 42
Jane Babington 37
John Babington 16
Edward Babington 13
Joseph Babington 11




1871 England Census
about John Babbington
Name: John Babbington
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, Hampstead, London, England
Civil parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: Church Aston
Town: Aston Manor
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Erdington
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 148
Household Members:
Name Age
John Babbington 45
Jane Babbington 40
John Babbington 7
Christoper Babbington 5
Edward Babbington 3
Joseph Babbington 1

Perhaps he was already married so never married Ellen Clarke.

I would be tempted to buy the death cert in Sheffield as there doesn't appear to be another John Babington of correct age in the area on 1901 census.

If it isn't the correct one at least it would eliminate him.

Christine

Hi Gaynor
I've already tried the common mis-spellings of my Babbington i.e. Bebbington, Bibbington, Bobbington but now you mention it I think I came across a Bebbington so I will look again.

Hi Christine
I've just had a quick look at censuses and you could well have cracked it, except on GR 1881 census I can only find John age 42 at the bottom of the page, how do I go to the following page for the rest of the family please?

On Ancestry you can just move either one page backwards or forward but I've heard that you can't do that on here.

Have you tried searching for Joseph or Edward and then looking at that image?

Christine

Hi Christine
Yes, I've done that & found John. Still looking for a birth
Thanks
Anthony

I had a pm yesterday from a lady who is also very kindly trying to help me, she's been away so a lot of additions have been made to the thread during that time: -

Hi Anthony,

It is probably me and tell me so but I am still confused. I have had a fairly good look at your condensed thread but somewhere along the line I am losing the plot!

Your father was Ernest Babington - Is 34 white road on his marriage cert in 1933 ? On searching the elec roll the only 34 white road that comes up is Sparkbrook and a Davis family are living there on the roll in 1920 - 1940s . A second White road was obviously built in Harbourne but don't think that is correct area.
there are Ernest babbingtons in brum - did he stay in Brum ? He was married to ?

His parents were Ellen Clarke and John Babington ? Is this now definite or best guess ?

The Ellen Babington results are 269 Park road aston
106 Cooksey lane Kingstanding .
There is an Edgar with her over many years so again probably not right.

There is an ellen babbington at 23 alfred street - soho ward in 1955 with - dora babbington and philip babbington-- this is handsworth. so ??

the William Clarke question confuses me- you want to clarify how he fits in / establish if he is an elder half brother ?

The other Clarkes that you mention are they his children ? Your cousins ? I am really quite lost or maybe overtired ??

I think I have got confused because it seems that people have offered you so many different John Babingtons etc that I don't know which you believe to be correct. If you could tell me

1. 34 White Road on dad's mariage certificate (1933) was followed by 'Smethwick' I don't believe he stayed in Birmingham. He was married to Ivy Akiss.
2. Ellen & John are not definite but probably better than 'best guess'
3. The Ellen I'm looking for is Ellen (Senior), the Ellen at 23 Alfred Street in 1955 was Ellen (Junior) known to me as Auntie Nellie, she never married but had a son Philip who got married in Germany, his wife was Dora a German girl, I never knew her maiden name.
4.William Clarke, as I say on the thread I always believed he was the halfbrother of my dad and his sisters, I don't think I'm trying to find out how he fits in to the family tree but I am curious about exactly where & when he was born, why he didn't appear to be living with his mother as a child, when he married Auntie Muriel and what happened to him after I last saw him.
5. His children are my cousins (would you call them halfcousins?) I lost touch with all of them and I would like to add them to the family tree.
6. The only other thing I am trying to clear up at the moment is a birth for Lilian Clarke, it says on the 1911 census (when she is Lily Babangton) that she was born in Sheffield, Ecclesall Bierlow is classed as that. I just want to get the birth date and after discovering that she was a Clarke not a Babington/Babbington, make sure she was actually part of the main family or whether perhaps she was the daughter of a sister or relative of Ellen and maybe came to live with the family for one reason or another.
I'm sure that someone will able to enlighten us both about several points i.e. White Road, Smethwick
Do you have access to my family tree? if not and it would help, I can give you access.

I sent a pm to BrummieJan recently & mentioned the White Rd connection as she lived in Smethwick for a while, this is just part of her reply: - "Well that's a co-incidence - I know where White Road is". She wasn't aware that you would be saying you could find it so didn't add any more but there wouldn't have been anything more to add, it just confirms that there is such a road. I'm thinking that it just might be useful to find out who else was living there with dad before he left when he married (1933).

Losing the plot slightly, but re. the White Road issue - not relevant unfortunately but:

KELLEY, Joseph Henry Head Married M 30 1881 Puncher And Shearer Staffordshire Smethwick VIEW
KELLEY, Fanny Jane Wife Married
5 years F 27 1884 Warwickshire Birmingham VIEW
KELLEY, Florence Lucy Daughter F 2 1909 Staffordshire Smethwick VIEW
MULLIS, George Thomas Boarder Widower M 54 1857 Labourer In General Warwickshire Birmingham VIEW
MULLIS, William John Boarder Single M 22 1889 Straightener In Staffordshire Smethwick VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
17963 Reference:
RG14PN17963 RG78PN1094 RD383 SD4 ED21 SN167

Registration District:
Kings Norton Sub District:
Smethwick Enumeration District:
21 Parish:
Smethwick

Address:
34 White Road Smethwick Staffordshire County:
Worcestershire

Hi Brummiejan I think you have clarified the White Road Smethwick issue, as I did a further search this morning and it would appear that it was not covered on the Birmingham elec roll.

i also googled White rd Smethwick/ sparkbrook and they both exist and are several miles apart so Anthony will need to find the details for 1933 occupants elsewhere somehow --unfortunately.

Smethwick is covered by Sandwell. I have a Sandwell contact somewhere, will try to dig them out and see if they are visiting the library sometime soon.
Jan