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I have my great grandfather's Birth Cert
He was born at Shorncliffe in the army barracks. His father was in 21st Royal Hussars
edit DoB 18/07/1878

1881 Scotland Census
Name:Henry West
Age:2
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1879
Relationship:Son
Father's name:Alfred West
Mother's name:Emma West
Gender:Male
Where born:England
Registration Number:622/1
Registration district:Maryhill
Civil parish:Maryhill
County:Lanarkshire
Address:Lanarkshire
ED:Maryhill Barracks
Line:Roll:cssct1881_200
with siblings Alfred 1877 and Herbert 1880

1891 Address: 14, Thomas Place, St Mary, Lambeth
WEST, Alfred Head Married M 43 Tram Driver London
WEST, Emma Wife Married F 43 London
WEST, Alfred Son M 14 Errand Boy Houndslow Middlesex
WEST, Henry Son M 12 Scholar Shorncliffe Kent
WEST, Herbert Son M 11 Scholar Lancashire
WEST, Emma Daughter F 10 Scholar Scotland
WEST, Frank Son M 8 Scholar Surrey
WEST, Alice Daughter F 7 Scholar Surrey
WEST, George Son M 4 Surrey
WEST, Henritta Daughter F 2 Surrey

1901 age 19 all soldiers listed as son under position in household
1901 Royal Artillery Barracks Woolwich Green Hill Schools Repositery Gun Park and Observatory
WEST, Henry Charles Son Single M 19 1882 Soldier "b" Depo't Battery Royal Horse Artillery

He was a witness at marriage of henrietta west

1911 Person: WEST, Henry Charles
Address: 63 Gildersome St Woolwich
WEST, Henry Charles Head Married M 31 1880 Soldier Private Thorneliffe Kent
WEST, Sarah Lizzie Wife Married
3 years F 24 1887 Greenwich Kent
WEST, Maisie Kathleen Daughter F 0 (5 WEEKS) 1911 Woolwich Kent


Found Henry as an acting Sgt in 1918

1939 Woolwich Register of electors
Frances Street
Henry Charles West residence qualification due to occupation

So far so good.

Marriage:

Name: Henry Charles West - occ Driver RHA
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Spouse Name: Sarah Lizzie Minter
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 29 Mar 1908
Parish: St Alphege, Greenwich
County: Kent
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: Alfred West - occ Tram driver
Spouse Father Name: Francis Daniel Minter -occ painter

And the query is?

I've been holding on to see what the conundrum is but I need to go to bed. :-(

Sorry , I jumped in too soon. Lady Kira is probably still typing.

Looking at his parents next

1851 Address: 15, Queen Street, Saint George Hanover Square,
Westminster
WEST, James Head Married M 34 1817 Stableman Sussex
WEST, Mary Wife Married F 35 1816 Clement Middlesex
WEST, Emma Daughter F 11 1840 St James Middlesex
WEST, James Son M 9 1842 St George Middlesex
WEST, William Son M 7 1844 St George Middlesex
WEST, Alfred Son M 1 1850 St George Middlesex
WEST, Charles Son M 0 (1 MOS) 1851 St George Middlesex

1861Address: 6a, Hays Mews, St Georges Hanover Square, Westminster
WEST, Mary Head Widow F 48 1813 Launderess
St Clement London Middlesex
WEST, William Son Unmarried M 18 1843 Counter Man
St George Hanover Square Middlesex
WEST, Alfred Son Unmarried M 11 1850 Gardener Bay
St George Hanover Square Middlesex
WEST, Charles Son Unmarried M 8 1853
St George Hanover Square Middlesex
WEST, Arthur Son Unmarried M 8 1853
St George Hanover Square Middlesex
WEST, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 7 1854
St George Hanover Square Middlesex

1871Address: Hay's Mews, St George, Westminster
WEST, Mary Head F 50 1821 Middlesex
WEST, Charles Son M 20 1851 Middlesex
WEST, Arthur Son M 17 1854 Middlesex
WEST, Mary Daughter F 16 1855 Middlesex
WEST, Elizabeth Granddaughter F 4 1867 Middlesex

1881 Name: Alfred West Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration Number: 622/1
Registration district: Maryhill
Civil Parish: Maryhill
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Lanarkshire
Occupation: Soldier
ED: Maryhill Barracks
Page: 28
Line: 23
Roll: cssct1881_200

1891 as already posted

1901 28 Ernest St Lambeth
WEST, Alfred Head Married M 53 1848 Tram Driver Middlesex
WEST, Emma Wife Married F 53 1848 Middlesex
WEST, Herbert W Son Single M 21 1880 Tram Driver Freston
Lancashire
WEST, Frank P Son Single M 18 1883 Shop Assistant Surrey
WEST, George Son Single M 14 1887 Errand Boy Surrey
CLARK, Charles Adopted Son Single M 3 1898 Somersetshire

1911 Address: 214 Rommany Road West Norwood S E
WEST, Alfred Head Married M 63 1848 Right Watchman St Gerges Middlesex
WEST, Emma Wife Married 36 years F 63 1848 St Gerges Middlesex
HARRIS, Beatrice Nurse Child F 7 1904 Not Known Mother in Asylum
10 children born alive 2 died

Next comes the conundrum.........

C'mon. I've got the electricians coming at 8 a.m. tomorrow!

This would appear to be brother Alfred's details.

Births Dec 1876
West Alfred Henry W Brentford 3a 45

Alfred Henry Walter West was baptised on 3 June 1877, father Alfred West mother Emma West, place of baptism St Paul Hounslow Heath, Hounslow Middx.
Father is noted as private in 21st Hussars and livimg in Calvalry barracks

1881 Name: Alfred West
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: Alfred
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration Number: 622/1
Registration district: Maryhill
Civil Parish: Maryhill
County: Lanarkshire
Address: Lanarkshire

1891 Address: 14, Thomas Place, St Mary, Lambeth
WEST, Alfred Head Married M 43 Tram Driver
London
WEST, Emma Wife Married F 43
London
WEST, Alfred Son M 14 Errand Boy
Houndslow
Middlesex
WEST, Henry Son M 12 Scholar
Shorncliffe
Kent
WEST, Herbert Son M 11 Scholar
Lancashire
WEST, Emma Daughter F 10 Scholar
Scotland
WEST, Frank Son M 8 Scholar
Surrey
WEST, Alice Daughter F 7 Scholar
Surrey
WEST, George Son M 4
Surrey
WEST, Henritta Daughter F 2
Surrey

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Alfred Henry Walter West
Name:Alfred Henry Walter West
Age:22
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1876
Spouse Name:Elizabeth Maud Oldfield
Spouse Age:18
Record Type:Marriage
Marriage Date:06 Feb 1898
Parish:St Luke, West Norwood
County:Surrey
Borough:Lambeth
Father Name:Alfred West
Spouse Father Name:Philip Josiah Oldfield

1911 Address: 31a St Louis Road
WEST, Alfred H W Head Married M 34 1877 Night Watchman St Paul Hounslow Heath
WEST, Elizabeth W Wife Married 14 years F 31 1880 London
WEST, Alfred P Son M 13 1898 West Norwood London
WEST, Frank Son M 9 1902 West Norwood London
WEST, Herbert W Son M 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911
West Norwood London
OLDFIELD, Eleanor M Relative Single F 19 1892
Streatham London
6 children 3 living 3 died


But ......

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Alfred Henry Walter West
Name:Alfred Henry Walter West
Record Type:Baptism
Born 12 sept 1879
Baptism Date:8 Dec 1893
Father's name:Alfred West tram driver
Mother's name:Emma West
Parish or Poor Law Union:
Woolwich St John
Borough:Greenwich
11 Auckland place west Norwood


His sister Emma was married in 1906 was married from this address

It is a strange set of baptisms as the whole page is baptisms in 1893 but birthdates in 1878 or 1878.

I could understand if the older one died and the second one got married but

I have not found a death
The birth places correspond with the older one as do the year of birth

I do still have a child missing for Alfred and Emma and only one death so far.

Sorry it took so long to type but it kept the suspense going. ;-)

Oh and Kucin ta that is his marriage.

I think both baptisms are of same chap.

What I find mysterious is that whole second set of baptisms in 1893.

If it had been the same church, I might have thought something was wrong with the original baptism (s), like the clergyman was a fake, and a second baptism(s) was taking place to correct the matter.

Or is it a group, like a class of boys being done as a job lot? That whole double page is dated Dec 8th and I think that's what the mystery is, why the job lot of baptisms of teenage boys?

I wonder if any of the others had been baptised before?

Three of the addresses given for other boys baptised is the same, [The] WARSPITE.

Googling shows it was some sort of naval training ship, for boys from poor backgrounds. Perhaps that's what the lads had in common?

Maybe any lad who hadn't been baptised, or didn't know if he had been, just got done 'to be sure'?

So maybe Alfred underwent some training on this teaching vessel, but didn't for whatever reason follow through and make a career in the navy?

I think Kucinta has it right. My own dad, in 1943 during WW2 was baptised on board his ship along with about 30 others, who had never been baptised or weren't sure that they had. It was a C of E "service" provided to the sailors down in Portsmouth. It was only when dad came home that he learnt he had been baptised at the local Catholic church when he was a few months old.

I have come across that sort of thing beore but the birthdate and place of birth is different.
There is also no sign of naval training 1891 or 1911


1901 Address: 15, Chapel (Baptist), Auckland Hill Fairview Terrace, Lambeth
WEST, Alfred Head Married M 24 1877 Contractor's Carman N K Middlesex
WEST, Elizabeth Wife Married F 21 1880 Kennington London
WEST, Alfred Son M 3 1898 West Norwood Surrey
WEST, Walter Son M 0 (10 MOS) 1901 West Norwood Surrey

Strange thing is that alfred and Emma were not at that address in1901??


In that case I need one more birth and death before 1911
As well as Henry and Alfred I have
Herbet 1879 lancashire alive
Emma 1881 Scotland alive
Frank 1882 Peckham alive
Alice 1884 Peckham alive
Eliza 1886 Peckham died
George 1887 Peckham alive
Henrietta 1889 Lambeth alive

Thank you for reassuring me I was not going mad. West is difficult anyway but army movements make it worse.

OK, I take your point there's 3 yrs difference between birthdates of 12th Oct 1876 in the first baptism, and 12th Sept 1879 as given in the second.

No place of birth is given in the second, only the current parental address, and father's current occupation

The parents of 'both' boys appear to be Alfred and Emma as you have detailed them.

As I said in an earlier post Alfred didn't seem to have followed through on any naval training he may have had, but that doesn't mean he didn't undergo it for at least a short time.

I am now back to wondering if there were two sons with the same name. My gut feeling is still that it's just the one, but you're right in that 3 year difference is a lot to get over.

I'm off to bed now, looking forward to further developments in the morning.

I will sleep on it too
Night :-) :-)

LK - You posted:
1901 28 Ernest St Lambeth
WEST, Herbert W Son Single M 21 1880 Tram Driver Freston Lancashire

Thinking way, way outside the box and taking a wild leap of faith, I assume Freston is a mistranscription of Preston, and find:

Births Dec 1879 (>99%)
West Herbert William Preston 8e 620

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1879
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
WEST Herbert William Broughton Preston COOK BRO/20/76


Marriages Dec 1875 (>99%)
CARROLL Annie Elizabeth St Geo. H Sq 1a 633
COOK Emma St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 633
SMITH Theodore Thomas St.Geo. H. Sq. 1a 633
WEST Alfred St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 633

NB No other West-Cook births in Preston 1874-1885

Thank you MGNY.
What I am doing at the moment is going over my tree with a fine tooth comb before adding it to my family tree maker.
I have corrected errors and found new sources of information. Some obvious things were left out.
I had found the date for the marriage but just left it in the box on GR tree.
Alfred's brother married Emma's sister so my GR layout is a little strange where I cannot merge them.
I too guessed it is Preston but I had not looked on http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ :-D :-D