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Hi,
I am looking for information on Harry Berry b.1883 d.1915 in France.
I do not know if we are related but there have always been tales of a relative who played rugby for Gloucester & England (1907-1912). I was rescently, sent an article from Gloucester Rugby and there was some information about Harry in it. I am hoping that somebody can give me some ideas as to where to head my research.
Peter

If you think you are closely related to Harry Berry, then you need to trace your family backwards and sideways to see where that connection might be.
Have you applied for Harry's birth certificate for the names of his Parents?
Did the article tell you if Harry had married by 1911, and where he was from originally if not Gloucestershire?
Thanks

Added:
You can find possible births here;
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Which gives us these for Gloucestershire
(Late birth in December 1883 might not be registered until 1884)
Births Mar 1883
BERRY Henry Gloucester 6a 295
Births Dec 1883
Berry Harry Stratford 6d 596
Births Mar 1884
Berry Harry Chipping N. 3a 842

Added:
Article claims:
birth in Gloucester on 8 January 1883, so the Henry posted above presumably.
Also, was a career soldier from 1899, so might not show in censuses.

Link to article and photograph....

http://www.gloucesterrugbyheritage.org.uk/page_id__157_path__0p3p17p.aspx

Just to help, there appears to be a crease in the page, but this looks like him in 1891, just get the birth certificate for confirmation.
Harry Ber??
Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son Mother's name: Hannah Ber??
Gender: Male Where born: Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: St John the Baptist Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Registration district: Gloucester Sub-registration district: St John the Baptist
ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Piece: 2014 Folio: 121 Page Number: 36
Hannah Ber?? 55 widow
Ellen Ber?? 26
Louisa Ber?? 19
Kate Ber?? 17
Alice Ber?? 10
Harry Ber?? 8
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 2014; Folio 121; Page 36; GSU roll: 6097124.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Henry Berry
Event(s)
Birth: 1883

Gloucester,Gloucestershire,England

Parents
Father: James Berry
Mother: Hannah Harding

The 1881 confirms they are Berry in 1891
1881 England Census
James Berry Age: 47 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Berry
Gender: Male Where born: Gloster, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Gloucester Kingsholm St Mary County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address: 42 Columbia St
Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Dock Laborer
Registration district: Gloucester Sub-registration district: St Nicholas
ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Piece: 2532 Folio: 36 Page Number: 38
James Berry 47
Hannah Berry 42
Ellen Berry 19
Clara Berry 16
James Berry 14
Louisa Berry 8
Kate Berry 6
Alice Berry 2
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2532; Folio: 36; Page: 38; GSU roll: 1341611.

Some facts from the free CWGC site

BERRY, HENRY
Initials: H
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Corporal
Regiment/Service: Gloucestershire Regiment
Unit Text: 1st Bn.
Age: 32
Date of Death: 09/05/1915
Service No: 5711
Additional information: Husband of Beatrice Eveline Berry, of 68, Alvin St., Gloucester. English International (1910).
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 17.
Memorial: LE TOURET MEMORIAL


Now look for his marriage.................

So, Peter, who are your Berry ancestors?

Groom Surname Groom Forename Bride Surname Bride Forename District Parish Building Year Register Entry


BERRY Henry ARNOLD Beatrice Eveline Gloucester Gloucester St Catherine 1910 27 No 3 176

His children?

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
BERRY Henry G Arnold Gloucester 6a 575

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
BERRY Phyllis I Arnold Gloucester 6a 527

????????
Child Surname Child Forename Father Surname Mother Surname Mother's Former Name Year District Office Register Entry

BERRY Henry BERRY BERRY HARDING 1883 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 25 371

1911 ?

Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

BERRY, Henry Head M 25 1886 Inn Keeper Gloucester VIEW
BERRY, Beatrice Wife F 24 1887 Chepstow VIEW
PRICE, Emily Mother F 49 1862 Cardiff VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
15284 Reference:
RG14PN15284 RG78PN925 RD325 SD2 ED4 SN398

Registration District:
Gloucester Sub District:
Gloucester Northern Enumeration District:
4 Parish:
Gloucester

Address:
Red Lion Northgate Street Gloucester County:
Gloucestershire


Births Dec 1886 (>99%)
Arnold Beatrice Eveline Chepstow 11a _

Siblings?

BERRY Alice BERRY BERRY HARDING 1878 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 22 476
BERRY Emmanuel BERRY BERRY HARDING 1876 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 22 115
BERRY James BERRY BERRY HARDING 1867 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 16 237
BERRY Kate BERRY BERRY HARDING 1875 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 21 93
BERRY Louisa BERRY BERRY HARDING 1873 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 20 175
BERRY William Henry BERRY BERRY HARDING 1869 Gloucester Gloucester, St Nicholas 17 350

Are career soldiers normally also innkeepers?

Births Dec 1886 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arnold Beatrice Eveline Chepstow 11a _

He wasn't a career soldier, was he?

He was an International Rugby player, which fits perfectly with his being an Innkeeper.

The 1881 census shows him living within shouting distance of Gloucester Rugby ground

The article, and my reference, said he was a career soldier.

OK, he rejoined at start of WW1, so could be an innkeeper - but wrong name for Mother?

Added<
All right, I admit defeat on that one with remarried mother in law.

1891 Wales Census about Beatrice Arnold
Name: Beatrice Arnold
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's name: Emily Price (on 1911 census!)
Gender: Female
Where born: Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Chepstow
Ecclesiastical parish: Chepstow
Town: Chepstow
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Chepstow
Sub-registration district: Chepstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4336
Folio: 56
Page Number: 50
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Price 38
Emily Price 30
Elizabeth Price 12
James Price 10
Arthur Arnold 9
Edgar Arnold 7
Beatrice Arnold 5
Amelia Arnold 2


1901 Wales Census about Beatrice Arnold
Name: Beatrice Arnold
Age in 1901: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's name: Emily Price (on 1911 census!)
Gender: Female
Where born: Chepstow, Monmouthshire, Wales

Civil parish: Chepstow
Ecclesiastical parish: Chepstow
Town: Chepstow
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales

Registration district: Chepstow
Sub-registration district: Chepstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Piece: 4917
Folio: 10
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Price 45
Emily Price 40
William Arnold 20
Arthur Arnold 18
Edgar Arnold 16
Albert Smith 28
Beatrice Arnold 14
Amelia Arnold 11
Rosie Arnold 8
Richard Price 7
Albert Price 4
Florence Price 3


Marriages Mar 1891 (>99%)
xxxx Arnold Emily Cardiff 11a 559
Ferris Mary Ann Cardiff 11a 559
Hall Francis Cardiff 11a 559
xxxx Price Richard Cardiff 11a 559

I didn't look at the article..........based my research on the death info on CWGC

What should be the 'right' name for the mother?

1881?

1881 Wales Census about Emily Arnold
Name: Emily Arnold
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William C. Arnold
Gender: Female
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Cardiff St Mary
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: No 26 Crichton St

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5279
Folio: 12
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
William C. Arnold 26 - born: Chepstow, Monmouth, Wales (Occupation: Tramcar Conductor)
Emily Arnold 21
William C. Arnold

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915 about William Charles Arnold
Name: William Charles Arnold
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1889
Age at Death: 35
Registration district: Chepstow
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 4