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hi all i am looking to find my great grandfather james gunn he married christina raymond burdon in 1896 in south shields they had one son in 1897 called james gunn christina then had another son in 1898 to a jerimiha westall they then got married in 1900 in tynemouth, on james and christina`s marriage cert it names james father as simon gunn [deceased] carpenter by trade and james was a mariner i have no other records for james and simon gunn i.e. where they were born or died can any one help please thanks malcolm gunn

Have you found James on any census ?

How old was he when he married ?

Witnesses ?

Hello Malcolm, have you looked on FreeBMD for any records?
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

According to South Shields Council website their marriage was 15/12/1896 - not 1886.

I think the marriage must be later than 1886 as Christina was only born in 1880



Name: Christina Raymond Burdon
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1896
Registration district: South Shields
Inferred County: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1174


Possible groom of James Gunn

Here is Christina 1911. Have you found her 1891?

1911 England Census

Name: Christina Raymond Westhall
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Tyne Dock, Durham, England
Civil parish: South Shields
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street Address: 179 Adelaide St So Shields
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Wood
Registration district: South Shields
Registration District Number: 556
Sub-registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 30285
Household Members:
Name Age
Jeremiah Westhall 41
Christina Raymond Westhall 29
James Junn 13
Lionel Cristenson 5

According to a tree on Ancestry James Gunn senior was born 1875 and was a mariner at the time of his marriage in 1896 and was living at 57 Bede Street, South Shields.

(I think the tree is Malcolm's).

For reference -

Marriages Dec 1896 (>99%)
BURDON Christina Raymond S. Shields 10a 1174
Gunn James S. Shields 10a 1174

Births Dec 1897 (>99%)
Gunn James S. Shields 10a 830

Marriages Mar 1900 (>99%)
Gunn Christina Raymond S. Shields 10a 934
WESTHALL Jeremiah S. Shields 10a 934

Closest 1891 I can find, but father is Samuel:

GUNN, Samuel Head Married M 46 1845 Carpenter Guisbrough Yorkshire
GUNN, Harriet Wife Married F 51 1840 Chatham Kent
GUNN, James Son Single M 18 1873 Guisbrough Yorkshire
GUNN, Samuel Son Single M 16 1875 Guisbrough Yorkshire
GILL, Edith Huney Stepdaughter Single F 17 1874 Poplar London
GILL, Alfred Stepson Single M 13 1878 Gravesend Kent

Registration District: Gravesend
Civil Parish: Milton
Municipal Borough: Gravesend

Address: 23, Augustine Road, Milton, Gravesend County: Kent

(On the original image it looks like the two stepchildren's surnames are Huneygill)

????

Registration event: death

Name: GUNN, James
Date of death: 24 March 1898
Age: 24
Place of death: North Sea
Place of birth: Gravesend
Belonging to service:
Ship's name: Leechmere
Series: BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box: 0019
Page: 9

Last address was 4 Bede Street, Tyne Dock, South Shields. He was a fireman. Note says "presumed drowned, vessel missing".

I think this is the right chap.

I have a feeling about that one MarieCeleste. If you look at the 1891 census for that family, while he is (I think) a labourer, a lot of the men living nearby have seafaring jobs - tug captain, marine sergeant, marine engineer etc etc.

EDIT didn't see your last posting - that confirms it, nice bit of research!

Jan

In 1901 the Harriet from the 1891 is a widow - could James father be Samuel and not Simon?


GUNN, Harriet Head Widow F 61 1840 Laundress Chatham Kent
HUNEYBELL, Alfred Son Single M 23 1878 Waterman Gravesend Kent

Registration District: Gravesend
Civil Parish: Milton

Address: 23, Augustine Road, Milton County: Kent

I think it might be possible that the father's name may have been written wrongly (perhaps misheard?) on the marriage certificate and they've put Simon instead of Samuel.

This possible death for the father fits time-wise:

Deaths Jun 1892
Gunn Samuel 47 Gravesend 2a 282

Malcolm, if you could have another look at that marriage certificate and see if the father's name is clearly written ....

If that tree on ancestry IS yours then it mentions the 1891 census in Kent.

hi MarieCeleste i went down that line with samuel from guisbough thinking the name was miss spelt so i went back to s/s to look at the original and definatly says simon on the marrige cert but i think you could be right with your records the only thing which put me off james was 20in 1896 which is stated on the marriage cert which would make his d.o.b.1876james from guisbough was born in 1873 the dates could be wrong so i `m going to use what you have given me and thanks you have found a bit more info,i could not find cheers i am still hoping to find my scottish ancesters

1881

Name: Samuel Gun
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma Gun
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesborough, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Caterham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street Address: 4 Woodville Terr
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Carpenter

Registration district: Godstone
Sub-registration district: Godstone
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 803
Folio: 81
Page Number: 60
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Gun 36
Emma Gun 28
Samuel Gun 2
James Gun 10
Helenor Gun 6 months
William Compton 43
Samuel Hilton 40
John Hunter 62
Alfred Wilkins 40
Thomas Dickens 30
John Wellbridge 30
Thomas Jeffrey 30

you have thrown the cat among the pigeons now the only thing is the spelling one n in gunn ? i wonder if i can find samuel in the 1891 census as he is deffinately dead before 1896 and will not be on the 1901 census

Trust me Malcolm - one n or two is irrelevant!
Jan

hi jan checked the census records to me it is deffenatly two n`s it is the way they have wrote it, it has been interperated wrong by the researcher, i cannot find them on the 1891 census for some reason

Hello Malcom - the 1891 that I posted further up is, I'm fairly sure, the same family as Rootgatherer posted the 1881 for. The two lads birthplace is the same (it's quite likely that if an enumerator down south hadn't heard of Guisborough that they'd use the nearest bigger town (Middlesbrough) - bit like people from Blaydon saying they're from Gateshead when out of their home area).

On the 1891 Samuel is with Harriet - note the two stepchildren. That implies they hadn't been together that long. Don't know what happened to Emma.

Don't get hung up on spellings and exact ages. Very many people in those days were illiterate and wouldn't know if their names were being spelled correctly. They wouldn't be able to read their birth certificates (that's if their births had been registered - before 1874 there wasn't the onus on parents to do so.). That's why we so often see such a variation in ages on census and other records. I honestly don't think exact ages were important to so many people back then. Many of the reasons why we need to confirm our ages these days just didn't exist for our ancestors.

hi MarieCeleste looks like emma may have taken helenor with her to where ever may have stayed in middlesbrough when samuel went down south correct me if i am wrong that means harriet is no relation to me and emma is my actural g.g.grandmothe

hi all how can i get james gunn birth certificate born in guisborough in 1873 i have checked on line and there is no match could he be registererd in another county? can any one help as i need the person who registererd the birth hopefully the father cheers