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Hi All,

I have a very tricky family tree i was hoping i could get some assistance with.

My father Terence Scrivens born 1946. He was adopted and name changed to DAVID OUTTEN. I have found out he had a sister - Verna Scrivens 1943 - who was also put up for adoption (but I've no idea if there was a name change etc)

Through speaking with my dad (when he was alive) he told me his mothers name was ELSA Scrivens born 1925. He also said she married in the SMITH family *sigh* and the relocated to Southampton where she passed away.

Elsa Scrivens, i believe her parents were Ernest Edward Scrivens Born approx 1896 and Annie Emma Hughes approx 1900.

If anyone can offer some assistance here to help me clarify my tree that would be great. I have particular interest in finding more information about Verna Scrivens (My Aunty) but i understand this won't be easy.

Please feel free to request a look at my family tree as it stands.

Thankyou all.

Harvey

possible marriage for Elsa???


from www.freebmd.org.uk/


Marriages Mar 1948 (>99%)

Scrivens Elsa N Smith Southampton 6b 1289
Smith Alexander S Scrivens Southampton 6b 1289


Elsa's birth was registered in the March quarter of 1926, which means that she could have been born between mid-November 1925 and end of March 1926 ........... parents ahve 6 weeks in which to register a birth


Births Mar 1926 (>99%)

Scrivens Elsa N Hughes Birmingham S. 6d 306

IF Elsa's parents were indeed Ernest Edward Scrivens and Annie Emma, then he died "on war service" in early 1939 .................. the following is his Probate Record from ancestry



England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Ernest Edward Scrivens

Name: Ernest Edward Scrivens
Probate Date: 22 Apr 1940
Death Date: 8 Sep 1939
Death Place: Birmingham, West Midlands, England
Registry: Birmingham, England


from the image:-

of 7 Woodbine Croft, Sheldon, Birmingham 26, died 8 September on war service. Administration granted at Birmingham on 22 April 1940 to Annie Emma Scrivens, widow. Effects £275 1s 6d



You really need to get Elsa's birth certificate to get the names of her parents, and the actual date of her birth

Thankyou so much for this help Sylvia! I will try to hunt for elsa's birth cert now!

As for Verna Scrivens (my fathers sister) I have been unable to find anything other than a birth certificate - I suspect her name was changed when she too was adopted. Is there anyway to hunt down further information here? Or is it a dead end?

This looks as if it is Ernest Edward in 1911, living with his mother and step-father .............. it does say Step Son on the image not Stepsister!


1911 Census

Name: Ernest Edward Scrivens
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Stepsister
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Stirchley, Warwickshire
Civil Parish: North Bromsgrove
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Street address: The Elms, Eachway, Rednal Nr Bromsgrove, B'Gham
Registration district: Bromsgrove
Registration District Number: 382
Sub-registration district: Bromsgrove
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Household schedule number: 108
Piece: 17786

Walter George Homer 45 b.ca 1866, Birmingham, Dairy Farmer
Jessie Homer 33 b.ca 1878, Clun, Shropshire
Myra Eveline Homer 11
Edith Deborah Homer 9
Georgina Homer 6
Walter Homer 4
Mary Barbara Homer 6/12
Ernest Edward Scrivens 14



haha .................. this was a second marriage for Walter George Homer.

Ernest Edward was the child of his first wife!!!


Marriages Jun 1909 (>99%)

GOUGH Jessie King's N. 6c 749 Scan available - click to view
HOMER Walter George King's N. 6c 749 Scan available - click to view


The first marriage ....................

Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%)

HOMER Walter George King's N. 6c 459
Scrivens Emily King's N. 6c 459


Ernest Edwards' birth registration .................

Births Dec 1896 (>99%)

Scrivens Ernest Edward King's N. 6c 415

Harvey


If Verna was adopted officially, and her name was changed then it is much more difficult.

I'm not the best person to ask about that though!

There are other helpers on here who will know more ................... and they will be coming on site during the daytime :-)

This looks like Walter Homer with his first wife in 1901 .................


1901 Census

Name: Walter Homer
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Emily Homer
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Northfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Selly Oak St Mary
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

View image
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Kings Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 37

Piece: 2808
Folio: 27
Page Number: 45
Household schedule number: 259

Walter Homer 35 Gas Meter Inspector
Emily Homer 34 b.ca 1867, Wythall, Worcestershire
Myra Homer 1 b.ca 1900, Baumbrook, Worcestershire
Deborah Homer 2 Months b. 1901, Baumbrook
Emily Sermons 12 b.ca 1889, Birmingham, Stepdaughter <<<<< should be Scrivens
Frederick Sermons 8 b.ca 1893, Birmingham, Stepson<<<<<< should be Scrivens
William Sermons 6 b.ca 1895, Birminghma, Stepson <<<<<<< should be Scrivens
Ernest Sermons 4 b.ca 1897, Stirchley, Worcestershire, Stepson<<<<<< should be Scrivens

Address:- 6 Luton Road

Ernest Edwards marriage gives his father:


Ernest Edward Scrivens
Gender:Male
Birth Year:abt 1897
Marriage Date:14 Mar 1922
Marriage Age:25
Marriage Place:
Bordesley, St Andrew, Warwickshire, England
Spouse:Annie Emma Hughes
Spouse Gender:Female
Spouse Marriage Age:22
Father:Frederick William Scrivens
Spouse's Father:Joseph Hughes

And there is a baptism confirming father


Ernest Edward Scrivens
Birth Date:25 Sep 1896
Baptism Date:10 Jan 1897
Baptism Place:
Kings Norton, St Nicolas, Worcestershire, England
Father:Frederick William Scrivens
Mother:Emily Scrivens

with those cluues


from freebmd


Marriages Jun 1887 (>99%)

Clark Emily King's N. 6c 623
SCRIVENS Frederick William Kings Norton 6c 623

and his death??

Deaths Sep 1896 (>99%)

Scrivens Frederick W 28 Birmingham 6d 96

it looks as though he died around the time Ernest Edward was born :-(

He died 3/8/1896, buried Kings Norton (St Nicholas) 8/8/96. He was a railwayman according to sons marriage (deceased) - his railway record gives date of death - he had joined in 1888 age 20

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!!! I love all this history you have been able to find for me! so grateful - would love to hear more, if u can find any :)))

Trouble is, we don't know for sure Elsa's parents were definitly Ernest & Annie - they may not be. Without her birth cert we can't be sure, and you could do with it to get her exact dob as a Smith is not easy to track.

If you have the right information and Elsa did marry Mr Smith - there are 3 births in southampton, between 1949 & 1956 - check them out on Freebmd - on child has the same name as your father.

I am sure that Elsa married into the Smith Family - mum told me when dad got a private investigator involved several years ago - when he attempted to make contact - elsa had passed away, and he did not pursue anything further. Apparently she had further children with Alexander Smith.

Freebmd states march 1926 - but no specifics (for elsa) with the mothers maiden name as HUGHES - (annie)

The 1901 census found by Sylvia is the same family - there are christenings for Emily Christabel (1889), William George (1894) and Frederick Thomas (1893) in Ashted, Warwickshire. The father/mother are correct & his job varied between railway servant and shunter.

I just cannot find then in 1891!

I can't find them in 1891 either, but think at least 2 of Ernest's siblings ended up in your area Sylvia.

Emily C Scrivens is on canada passenger list arriving in 1910 - looks to have come back in 1915 and returned again - on the list it says to be married to J Lowery, farmer but I can't make out the place names.

There's also links to William George, and a marriage in Canada,

Frederick Thomas also shipped out on the Empress of India, in 1922 - going to his sister Mrs Lourie. He had wife Florence (23) and daughter Sylvia (2) with him.

Have you added your name here?

https://www.gov.uk/adoption-records/the-adoption-contact-register

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1338260