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James Irving Brock

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Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 00:00

James Irving Brock was born 17 July 1868 in Ireland, to parents James Edwin Brock and Margaret Jane Graham.
On familysearch there are two references to his place of birth - one says Grangegeeth Cross Roads, County Meath, and the other says The Grange, Moore Abbey, Athy.
Birth dates and parents are the same for both.
I'm not very well up on Irish places so does anyone have an explanation for this please.


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 07:51

The image of the birth entry is here:

The address is
The Grange, Moore Abbey
District of Monasterevan
Union of Athy
County of Kildare

Parents: James Brock (Gamekeeper) & Margaret Jane Brock (formerly Graham)

Monasterevan is in County Kildare, and Grangegeeth is quite a way from there in County Meath.


ArgyllGran Report 3 Dec 2018 09:22

The records (transcriptions) as shown on Familysearch, for reference:

James Irvine Brock
Ireland Civil Registration, 1845-1913
Name: James Irvine Brock
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 17 Jul 1868
Event Place: Grangegeeth Cross Roads, County Meath, Ireland
Event Place: The Grange, Moore Abbey, Athy, Ireland
Gender: Male
Father's Name: James Brock
Mother's Name: Margaret Jane Graham Brock

James Irvine Brock
Ireland Births and Baptisms
Name James Irvine Brock
Gender Male
Birth Date 17 Jul 1868
Father's Name James Brock
Mother's Name Margaret Jane Graham


ArgyllGran Report 3 Dec 2018 09:26

Could he have been born in one place (Athy), but baptised in County Meath?

But maybe it 's just a mistake in transcription. Maybe someone (or their computer) picked out the wrong "Grange" address.
There's certainly no mention of Meath on the birth cert.


Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 15:52

Thanks ArgyllGran. I suppose it's possible he was born in one place and baptised in another - his parents seem to move around quite a bit. James Irving Brock was one of four children - the first was born in Clanbur, Galway, the second in Irvinestown, Fermanagh, then James Irving in Kildare, then the fourth back in Irvinestown.
Very strange.


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 17:36

I suspect there were more children as the parents married in 1858, but civil registration for births in Ireland did not start until 1864.

I presume the 4 you have are:

Lucy Jane Brock 1864
Anne Isabella Brock 1866
James Irvine Brock 1868
Margaret Catherine Brock 1873

There was also daughter Henrietta Brock- she married John Nixon in 1887 Omagh. Her sister, Annie Isabella Anderson (nee Brock) was a witness to the marriage. Henrietta's father was listed as James Brock, game keeper

There was also daughter Mary Elizabeth Brock- recorded as age 18 in 1889 when she married William Henry Donaldson in Clones. Mary's father was listed as James Edward Brock, gamekeeper.

Mary Elizabeth was born in England:-

BROCK, MARY ELIZABETH (Mother's maiden name: GRAHAM)
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in PERSHORE Volume 06C Page 357


Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 17:49

Thanks Austin, you did better than me, I didn't find the others. I wonder why they moved around so much.


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 17:55

I suspect they moved around for the father's gamekeeping work. I've added the birth above for daughter Mary Elizabeth- she was born in England.


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 18:00

Looks like Mary was a twin:

Her brother:

BROCK, SIDNEY HERBERT (mother's maiden name: GRAHAM )
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in PERSHORE Volume 06C Page 357

Baptism for both: (Margaret also went by her second name, Jane):

Name: Mary Elizabeth Brock
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 1 Apr 1871
Baptism Place: Great Comberton, Worcester, England
Father: James Brock
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 350631

Name: Sidney Herbert Brock
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 1 Apr 1871
Baptism Place: Great Comberton, Worcester, England
Father: James Brock
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number: 350631

1871 English census was taken 2nd of April, so they should be on it.


Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 18:07

Thanks again. I was wondering if it might be because of his job.
I wonder when they moved to England. I think Pershore is in Worcestershire. My g grandmother, Margaret Catherine, married in Irvinestown but went on to live in Liverpool and one of her children was called Sidney Herbert.


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 18:10

This is the family in 1871. Ancestry has gone mad with the transcription, but it's definitely them:

Name: Sidney Brock
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's name: James Buck
Mother's name: Jane Buck
Gender: Male
Where born: Eckington, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: Eckington
Town: Eckington
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Pershore
Sub-registration district: Eckington
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 168
Piece: 3062
Folio: 57
Page Number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age

James Buck 37 Game keeper, Cheshire Ollerton
Jane Buck 34 Ireland
Henrietta Buck 9 Ireland
Bella Buck 5 Ireland
James Buck 3 Ireland
Sidney Brock 1 Worcestershire, Eckington
Mary Brock 1 Month Worcestershire, Eckington


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 18:23

I think this is father James and son Sidney in 1891:

Name: James E Brock
Gender: Male
Age: 60
Relationship: Boarder
Birth Year: 1831
Birth Place: Nottingham
Civil Parish: Adderbury
Residence Place: Adderbury, Adderbury, Oxfordshire, England
Sub registration district: Bloxham
ED, Institution or Vessel: 12
Piece: 1180 Folio: 120
Household Members:
Name Age

Richard Hopcraft 56
Elizabeth Hopcraft 42
Mary J Hopcraft 13
James E Brock 60 Boarder, Widower, Ag Lab, Nottingham
Sydney H Brock 20 Boarder, Ag Lab, Cumberton, Worcestershire

Possible death for Sidney:
Name Sydney Herbert Brock
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1892
Registration District Banbury
Event Place Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Age 21
Birth Year (Estimated) 1871
Volume 3A
Page 501


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 18:37

Not sure about that 1891 census- although it does seem to be them- unless James left Margaret? When Margaret dies in 1883 she's listed as a widow:

Death: Margaret Jane Brock
16th October 1883
Place: Irvinestown
Age: 48
Status: Widow, Housekeeper
Cause: Phthisis 2 years
Informant: Ann Isabella Brock- daughter


Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 18:55

Definite similarities but that 1891 census gives James as being born in Nottinghamshire but the 1871 census shows him born in Cheshire, so maybe your doubts about 1891 census are founded.
It's strange too that Margaret Jane died back in Irvinestown.


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 19:01

Although 1871 states Ollerton, Cheshire, I'm wondering if it was meant as Ollerton, Nottingham? Worth keeping in mind.

I don't have access to FMP, but wondering if this record was related to your James Edwin?: (Perhaps someone could look?)

Brock James Edwin — — 1877 England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Great Britain


AustinQ Report 3 Dec 2018 19:17

Ahhh, yes, I think when Ollerton was stated in 1871, it was meant to be Ollerton in Nottinghamshire, rather than Cheshire.

This is James in 1901:

Name: James Brock
Age: 71
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Rufford, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: East Adderbury
Town: East Adderbury
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Registration district: Banbury
Sub-registration district: Bloxham
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Piece: 1401 Folio: 114 Page Number: 6
Household schedule number: 28
Household Members:
Name Age

Elizabeth Hopcraft 52
James Brock 71 Boarder, Widower, ordinary AG Lab, Rufford, Notts

Note that Rufford is just 2 miles south of Ollerton, Nottingham


Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 19:24

Well that's interesting. The record says he was convicted of bigamy on 29 Oct 1877 in Liverpool and was sentenced to 12 months. Don't know how we find if it's the same James Edwin though.


ArgyllGran Report 3 Dec 2018 19:36

Did James Irving die in childhood?

James Brock
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Deaths Index, 1864-1958
Name: James Brock
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Date of Registration: 1876
Death Age: 8
Registration district: Irvinestown
Volume: 7
Page: 138
FHL Film Number: 101588

I suspect the family were in Ireland at the time of the 1881 census.


Yvonne Report 3 Dec 2018 19:44

Yes, looks like James did die in childhood, so though he was born in Kildare he died in Irvinestown where sister Margaret Catherine was born in 1873. Interestingly, two (possibly three) children born between James and Margaret Catherine were born in England. Maybe the reason is because of the bigamy conviction mentioned above!!


AustinQ Report 4 Dec 2018 16:23

I think it's likely the bigamy record is for the same James.

FMP has two records under Crime, Prisons & Punishment for James Edwin Brock, the one stating he was born 1830. Wondered if that record had anymore details on it.

Just for info- the family went through a really tough time, son James dying age 8, and also Lucy Jane dying in 1881 (Irvinestown), just aged 16. Interestingly Lucy doesn't appear to be with the family in 1871.

Lucy Jane Brock
death date: 22 Feb 1881
Place: Irvinestown
Age: 16 years
Occupation: Servant
Cause: phthisis pulmonalis 4 months
Informant: Jane Brock