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I've just noticed that Dorothy was in a consecrated grave, though she was supposed to have committed suicide after killing her lover - so perhaps the family story isn't right. Though Anne is sure she remembers reading about it in the tabloid press.

I suspect by 1987 that things were changing. I don't think there was any law to prevent an RC burial after suicide- it may have also helped that she was buried away from the area she had died.

I'm sorry I can't give any more details. I think the only way to tell if the story is true is to purchase the death certificate.

I'm out for the evening, but I'll look into Mary Clara/ Clara Thorne tomorrow.

Thank you so much

Going a bit off-piste here, and not helping with Agnes . (My apologies!) -


if it wasn't for the fact that AQ says she was born in Cardiff, I would say this looks like Sybil Vane in 1911:


Sibylla Vane
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Sibylla Vane
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Leicester, Leicester, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 1 Abbey Gardens N W
Marital status: Single
Occupation: ARTISTS MODAL
Registration district: St Marylebone
Registration District Number: 7
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 588
Household Members:
Name Age
Sibylla Vane 24
Regina Gratz 19 - actress

By 1919 she was living in Chelsea - so maybe had come to know Agnes in that way. But living in Cheyne Walk - a long way from Elystan Road.


Where did you find the info re Sybil Vane aka Elizabeth Jenkins, AQ? I don't see anything on Google.

This is the Elizabeth Jenkins you mention, in 1911, at home with her parents:

Elizabeth Jenkins
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Elizabeth Jenkins
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Cardiff
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 54 Dogfield St Cathays Cardiff
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Music Student <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration District Number: 588
Sub-registration district: Central Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Household schedule number: 250
Piece: 32105
Household Members:
Name Age
Shadrach Jenkins 53
Sarah Jenkins 48
Elizabeth Jenkins 24
Frene Jenkins 14
Bernard Jenkins 32

AG- there is lots in the papers re Sybil Vane being Elizabeth Jenkins and her father being Shad Jenkins. Sybil married Leon Domque (a wealthy pianist from California).

However, I hadn't seen the Sibylla Vane- so another possible, although I cant see anything else on her, perhaps that was also a stage name?

With regard to Sybil Vane - I have been wondering if the name could possibly be Sybil VINE ???

I have found a lot of info on 2 people of that name - the favourite being the first one who was a teacher:


????
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
VINE, SYBIL TYLER
GRO Reference: 1874 J Quarter in ST PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 159

Marriages Mar 1860 (>99%)
Tyler Mary Anne Stow 4a 585 Scan available - click to view
Vine Joseph Stow 4a 585 Scan available - click to view

??
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Chester Road, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

Mary A Vine Head Widow Female 54 1837 - Suffolk, England
Lucy E Vine Daughter Single Female 28 1863 - Suffolk, England
Joseph Vine Son Single Male 26 1865 Monumental Mason Letter Engraver Suffolk, England
***Sybil Vine Daughter Single Female 17 1874 Teacher National Schools -
Ellen M Vine Daughter - Female 12 1879 Scholar -



1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
12, Winscombe Street, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Vine Head Married Male 57 1824 Stone Mason Rickinghall, Suffolk, England
Mary A Vine Wife Married Female 44 1837 - Suffolk, England
Lucy E Vine Daughter Single Female 18 1863 Unemployed Botesdale, Suffolk, England
Joseph Vine Son Single Male 16 1865 Stone Mason Suffolk, England
George Vine Son Single Male 13 1868 Pupil Teacher Highgate, Middlesex, England
Sybil Vine Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Highgate, Middlesex, England
Ellen M Vine Daughter Single Female 2 1879 - Highgate, Middlesex, England
Susannah B Bibby Niece Single Female 14 1867 Scholar Walham, Suffolk, England
Sybil Vine's Census Details
Details taken from the original census record.



1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
16, Chester Road, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Vine Head Single Male 36 1865 Manager Monumental Mason Botesdale, Suffolk, England
Mary A Vine Mother Widow Female 64 1837 - Thorndon, Suffolk, England
Lucy E Vine Sister Single Female 38 1863 - Botesdale, Suffolk, England
Sybil Vine Sister Single Female 27 1874 Teacher Church School St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Ellen M Vine Sister Single Female 22 1879 Teacher Board School St Pancras, Middlesex, England





Sybil Vine's life in 1939
10 Common Hill, Saffron Walden M.B., Essex, England

(1 person)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Sybil Vine 24 Mar 1874 Female Teacher (Retired) Single 178 2




1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census - ....................................Surname is VINE !!!
Bertrand Street, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Fine Head - Male 41 1830 - Suffolk, England - stone mason
Mary Ann Fine Wife - Female 33 1838 - Suffolk, England
Lucy E Fine Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Suffolk, England
John Fine Son - Male 6 1865 - Suffolk, England
George Fine Son - Male 3 1868 - Middlesex, England
Frederick Jennings Lodger - Male 27 1844 - Suffolk, England - carpenter



Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
VINE, LUCY ELLEN TYLER
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in HARTISMERE Volume 04A Page 483

VINE, JOSEPH TYLER
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in HARTISMERE Volume 04A Page 508




OR this one ??? (Less likely I think? ).............................

1911 Census For England & Wales ?????
Usk Monkhams Lane Woodford Green, Woodford, London & Essex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alfred Henry Vine Head Married Male 65 1846 Retired Wesleyan Methodist Minister Nottingham Nottingham
Ellen Louisa Vine Wife Married Female 57 1854 - Brecon Llan Narth
Sibyl Mary Vine Daughter Single Female 31 1880 Photographer Oxford Banbury
Marjorie Vine Daughter Single Female 28 1883 - Yorks Bradford
Sibyl Mary Vine's Census Details
Details taken from the original census record.


???
Marriages Sep 1878 (>99%)
MORGAN Ellen Louisa Abergavenny 11a 73 Scan available - click to view
VINE Alfred Henry Abergavenny 11a 73 Scan available - click to view


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
VINE, SIBYL MARY MORGAN
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in BANBURY Volume 03A Page 785


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
4, Lady Margaret Road, St Pancras, London & Middlesex, England

Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alfred H Vine Head Married Male 55 1846 Wesleyan Minister Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Ellen L Vine Wife Married Female 47 1854 - Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales
Sibyl M Vine Daughter Single Female 21 1880 Violin Teacher Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Alice Vine Daughter Single Female 20 1881 - Banbury, Oxfordshire, England
Marjorie Vine Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Bradford, Yorkshire, England




1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
12, Calthorpe Road, Neithrop, Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alfred H Vine Head Married Male 38 1843 Wesleyan Methodist Minister Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Ellen L Vine Wife Married Female 27 1854 - Llanwenarth, Brecknockshire, Wales
Sybyl M Vine Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Neithrop, Oxfordshire, England
Alice Vine Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Neithrop, Oxfordshire, England
Martha Benjamin Servant Single Female 28 1853 Genl Domestic Servt Bryn Mawr, Brecknockshire, Wales

Dea x

I've contacted Dorset FHS to see if someone from there could visit Blandford Forum Cemetery and get me photos of their headstones.

Thanks, AQ.

Leon applying for a 12-month extension to his passport and giving his address as 54 Dogfield St, Cardiff - Elizabeth's home address in1911:

Leon Domke
in the U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925
Name: Leon Domke
Residence Place: Cardiff Wales
Passport Issue Date: 19 Jun 1924


And Leon and Sybil in 1924, (having married 15 Aug 1919 in Chicago - per another travel record):

Leon Domke
in the New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Leon Domke
Arrival Date: 27 Sep 1926
Birth Date: abt 1894
Birth Location: Illinois
Birth Location Other: Chicago, Illinois
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Samaria

And several other travel records.


However, don't want to start haring off down an irrelevant path when we're supposed to be looking for Agnes, tempting though it is!

Jan, I've sent you the burial register entries- I hope someone can help.

I was really hoping to find out more about Mary Clara/ Clara Thorne that was living at 28 Elystan Road from at least 1915- 1919 but nothing obvious coming up. In 1915 she's listed as Mary Clara Thorne and in 1919 just Clara Thorne.

It seems likely it was this lady, but I can't see anything for her in other census, or anything past 1919:

1911 Census For England & Wales

98 Arthur St Chelsea, Chelsea, London & Middlesex, England
Clara Thorne - Widow Female 57 1854 Needle Work Worksop Nothingham

Just an intriguing PS re Leon - and I'll stop this diversion now!

Although this travel record says Leon and Sybil married 15 Aug 1919, it appears his wife was Elizabeth ALLEN:

Leon Domke
in the New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Leon Domke
Arrival Date: 17 Jan 1928
Birth Date: 25 Jun 1894
Birth Location: Illinois
Birth Location Other: Chicago, Illinois
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Celtic



Leon Domke
in the Cook County, Illinois Marriage Indexes, 1912-1942
Name: Leon Domke
Gender: Male
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Allen <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 15 Aug 1919

One travel record calls Sybil/Elizabeth "Mrs Jenkins Domke"; another calls her Elizabeth Domke, and yet others call her Sybil.

I spent some time on Clara Thorne last night, and couldn't find anything either, AQ.
She's a mystery.

The one in the 1911 census is still at 98 Arthur Street in 1912:

Clara Thorne
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Clara Thorne
Year: 1912
County or Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Ward or Division/Constituency: Chelsea
Street address: 98 Arthur street

If I get a reply from the Dorset FHS, I'm going to ask them to check if Douglas W Harrington is also buried there. He seems to have disappeared after abandoning his family in about 1960, though Anne has a vague recollection that he later had an antiques shop in Burgess Hill.

Anne also said she'd been told she has a half-sister.

I don't see any other Harrington burials listed there, but that may just mean that register isn't online.

Do you have DOB for Douglas?

26th January, 1920 in Fulham

There was another Douglas William Harrington born Fulham 1910, his is the last death listed for that name in FreeBMD.

I wondered if Agnes Mary had gone to Dorset because that's where her son had disappeared to.

EDIT: NOT THIS ONE

This is possibly his death- correct date, but year is out:

Name: Douglas William Harrington
Death Age: 65
Birth Date: 26 Jan 1924
Registration Date: Aug 1989
Registration district: Thurrock
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 9
Page: 2778
------------------------------------

National Probate Calendar

Name: Douglas William Harrington
Death Date: 3 Aug 1989
Death Place: Stanford-le-Hope Ex
Probate Date: 26 Oct 1989
Probate Registry: Ipswich

HARRINGTON Douglas William of 45 Billet La, Stanford-le-Hope Ex died 3 August 1989 Administration will Will Ipswich 26 October
-----------------------------

EDIT: Not This One! this is him on the 1939 register- birth date must just be coincidence:

D W Wall (Harrington)'s life in 1939
45 Billet Road, Thurrock U.D., Essex, England
George Carpenter 20 Feb 1896 Male Charge Hand Petroleum Refinery Heavy Work Married 44 1
May Carpenter 21 Jul 1895 Female Housewife Unpaid Domestic Duty Married 44 2
M W Harrington 23 Apr 1922 Female Fiting Counter Shoe Factory Single 44 3
D W Harrington 26 Jan 1924 Male Repairing Gas Vs Boot Factory Single 44 4
D W Wall (Harrington) 10 Oct 1925 Female At School Single 44 5

This must be that one:

Births Mar 1924
Harrington Douglas W Wilson Orsett 4a 1078

Yes- the date must just be coincidence

Its interesting, though, that they worked in a boot factory, bearing in mind that Agnes' husband was master bootmaker.

I have tried to visualise how he would have spent his days at work - would he have worked on a last making bespoke boots? If so, I wonder where. A search for Harrington bootmaker produced Harrington & Willoughby, bootmakers in Northamptonshire, which I know is the bootmaking county, but that seems too far as they were living in London then Hastings. I can't somehow imagine him having a shed at the bottom of the garden though.

Being master bootmaker just means he was fully trained and experienced.
It doesn't necessarily mean he was the boss, or had his name above a shop door.

He could have been anywhere in the range between small self-employed in a shed (whether garden or not!), to employer of others. Or he could have been an employee himself, working in a factory, or in the workshop of a retailer.

In the 1901, he is living with his mother and siblings:

Emilie (Emily) Harrington, Widow, Private Means
William Edward Harrington, Widower, Commercial Traveller Pottery
Minnie Harrington Single (no occupation listed)
Montague Douglas Harrington, Widower, Bootmaker (dealer), then in the Whether Employer, Worker or Working on Own Account column it says what looks like "Out of Business"

The Harringtons had all been bootmakers, Emily nee Cattell was from a family of master drapers. It appears that she also brought the money into the family. Her husband was also William, who died 1877:

17 Jan 1877 • Middlesex, England
The Will of William Harrington late of 11 & 12 Upper Tachbrook St and 65 Buckingham Palace Road, both in Pimlico, Middx, Draper and Boot & Shoe Maker who died 17 January 1877 at 65 Buckingham Palace Road - Emilie Harrington. £9,000

£9,000 in 1877 must have been quite a lot of money I believe.

Both of those addresses had also been in Emily's family prior to the marriage.