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Harry & Oliver Jenkins

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


BrianW Report 24 Jun 2023 17:24

DNA testing has narrowed down OH grandfather to be one of four Jenkins brothers on the Isle of Wight in 1920.
Two, George and Ambrose, had children so we may be able to get tests on their descendants.
Harry (1878-1946) and Oliver (1893-1974) were officially childless but if they had illegitimate children who can be traced and tested then we can rule them in or out.

So if anyone can identify illegitimate children of Harry or Oliver I would be so grateful.


nameslessone Report 24 Jun 2023 17:33

No one is going to be able to fins out if there illegitimate children unless they are the children themselves and know their truth.

Make sure you you have uploaded to other sites just in case a family member has used them instead of the one you are on now.

This worked for us and we found OH’s grandfather so we didn’t need to put any ‘cats amongst the pigeons’.


ErikaH Report 24 Jun 2023 17:47

Any illegitimate children would be registered in the mother's name, unless the father was present and consented to have his name added to the birth cert.

Look yourself for births with dual registrations.........................

Are we to assume that your OH does not know who her birth mother was? Apologies if this is an inaccurate conclusion - but it's based on the wording of your post........................


ArgyllGran Report 24 Jun 2023 17:53

Was OH's grandfather brought up by his mother - or did she give him up for adoption?

[EDIT: Sorry - I meant was OH's mother or father (the grandfather's child) brought up by his/her mother? }

If brought up by his/her mother, what was her name?


ErikaH Report 24 Jun 2023 17:54


1921 Census Of England & Wales
Grange Road, Shanklin, Hampshire, England

Josephine Jenkins Head Male 1855 66 Isle of Wight, England Invalid -
Rhoda Jenkins Wife Female 1854 66 Isle of Wight, England Home Duties -
Harry Jenkins Son Male 1878 42 Isle of Wight, England General Carrier Shankin
Oliver Jenkins Son Male 1895 26 - Motor Carrier Shunter For And Forn, Newport Iof W
Doris Ewart Visitor Female 1900 20 Wood Green, London, England Newspaper & Book Keeper Ast Ar Enginneri Colly, Enginering Of Steel
Clara Ann Rowley Visitor Female 1861 60 Wood Green, London, England Home Duties -
Cyril Green Visitor Male 1857 63 London, England Shipping Clerk Doulton & Co Ltd Potters & C
Elizabeth Mary Green Visitor Female 1858 62 London, England Home Duties -
James Hutton Visitor Male 1870 51 Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Brough Libirian Portsmouth Corporation, Libary Deaprtment
Edith Gertrude Hutton Visitor Female 1872 49 Douglas, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Home Duties -

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Fawby Cottage, Clarendon Road, Shanklin, Isle of Wight, Isle of Wight & Hampshire, England
Josephus Jenkins Head Married Male 48 1853 Gardener (not domestic jobbing) Godshill, Isle of Wight, England
Rhoda Jenkins Wife Married Female 47 1854 - Shalfleet, Isle of Wight, England
Harry Jenkins Son Single Male 19 1882 General labourer Isle of Wight, England
George Jenkins Son Single Male 17 1884 Grocers porter Isle of Wight, England
Ambrose Jenkins Son Single Male 13 1888 - Newchurch, Isle of Wight, England
Monsell F Jenkins Son Single Male 11 1890 - Newchurch, Isle of Wight, England
Alice M Jenkins Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Newchurch, Isle of Wight, England
Oliver C Jenkins Son Single Male 7 1894 - Brading, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England
Norah B Jenkins Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Sandown, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England
Daisy V Jenkins Daughter Single Female 4 1897 - Brading, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England


nameslessone Report 24 Jun 2023 17:58

Is the heat getting to everyone?

It is Brian’s mother in law who doesn’t know or didn’t pass on the name of her father.

An illegitimate birth would not necessarily occur in the home area of the child’s errant father - so looking for births of unmarried mothers would probably be a futile exercise in the circumstances.


ErikaH Report 24 Jun 2023 18:01

OH's grandfather is the person being sought, and the OP is looking for HIS children. Presumably one of them is OH's parent?????????

I see no reference to mother-in-law in OP's text..............


nameslessone Report 24 Jun 2023 18:17

Brian is looking for his mother or father in law’s father. I.e OH’s grandfather. ( my mistake to just say mother in law).

Brian has found 4 brothers so why the need to look at Their mother. As he found the 4 they would presumably have been together. Brian is now wondering if the 2 thought not to have legitimate children may have had illegitimate ones - an impossible task unless they crop up as a DNA match. Which is why I suggested that Brian puts his OH’s DNA on other sites - just in case one pops up there.
By finding descendants of some of the brothers they should be able to work out which is the grandfather


ErikaH Report 24 Jun 2023 18:47

I made no mention of the mother of the four brothers!

As far as can be deduced the child of one of the Jenkins brothers is the unknown quantity………..the parent of the OP’s OH.

Unless the wording is incredibly misleading…………

`If OP’s OH knows both of her birth parents, why are we being asked to look for children of a potential grandfather?


nameslessone Report 24 Jun 2023 20:01

Bother, other IPad conked out halfway through.

AG asked about the grandfathers mother.

One of the Jenkins brothers is probably the grandfather of Brian’s OH. If Brian and his OH want to work out which brother is the grandfather they need the dna of their descendants.
By matching the dna of their descendants to the OH Brian should then be able to work out which one is correct.

By asking about possible illegitimate children Brian is just trying to cover all bases.

Only DNA will lead them to the grandfather unless that knowledge has been passed down to later generations, which would be surprising.


nameslessone Report 24 Jun 2023 20:10

We had exactly the same problem, not knowing who OH,s grandfather was. Two 2 nd cousin matches on Ancestry led me to several brothers, it was a match on My Heritage of a cousin once removed ( younger generation) led us back to the shared ancestor - OH’s grandfather.



BrianW Report 25 Jun 2023 07:23

Thank you for all the input, apologies if the question was not clear. Nameless one has the correct interpretation.
OH's grandmother would never give any information of the father of OH's dad and it's only by engaging a professional researcher to go down the DNA route that the four possibles and location has been established.
Re: 1921 census the Jenkins establishment was a boarding house, so the "vsitors" would be paying guests, not relatives.
What I was trying to ask was whether anyone had family hearsay that Harry or Oliver had fathered a child whose descendant we could ask to do a DNA test. Or someone may even be a descendant of that illegitimate child but knows the father's name was Harry or Oliver Jenkins
OH's Ancestry DNA has been put on Geneanet, Gedmatch, FamilytreeDNA, MyHeritage and MyLivingDNA. A close match with Coral F comes up on MYHeritage but she has unknown ancestors so can't look back far enough.


nameslessone Report 25 Jun 2023 10:24

Rain, you Did know that the Jenkins family are in trees on here. Do you feel able to make contact.

I have to admit we didn’t do that, we just wanted to know who the man was and it explained why a certain county was so strongly indicated on the ethnicity results.

Added: there are a lot a trees on Ancestry with this family. At least one (Powell) is a descendant of George.


BrianW Report 25 Jun 2023 13:22

Hello Namelessone,
Please could you expand your post above and point me in the right direction.
Thank you.


ErikaH Report 25 Jun 2023 14:08

Look in 'search all member trees'


nameslessone Report 25 Jun 2023 14:27

Hi Brian, I looked for Ambrose, both in the Search all members trees and then on Ancestry public trees as it is an unusual name. On here I then looked for George and saw the same members names.

There were a lot of trees on Ancestry and one that I picked to look at was a family member. I will check if I have given you the right tree holder and come back.

Added: yes, it was ‘The Powell Family Tree’. There was two other brothers, Monsell who died in France in 1918 age 28. Can’t see a marriage for him on freebmd., and the eldest Alfred who did marry and have at least one child.
Check the 1901 census posted yesterday.


BrianW Report 25 Jun 2023 18:01

That is definitely the right family. In fact they had twelve children plus almost certainly an extra one born before the parents married.
Monsell was unmarried and childless and died 2 years before Victor, whose father we are trying to determine, was conceived in 1920 so could not be the father.
Ambrose had married in 1914 and moved to London, so is not on the 1921 IoW census.


nameslessone Report 25 Jun 2023 18:12

So now you’ve got to decide whether to contact the family or be content knowing which family it is.

Good luck


ErikaH Report 26 Jun 2023 16:45

I have very little knowledge of DNA - and not much interest, if truth be told - but wouldn't ANY direct descendant of the parents of the brothers named have some familial matching? Or is that being too simplistic?

Wouldn't it be less complicated to look for legitimate children and their offspring?


nameslessone Report 26 Jun 2023 17:23

The descendants of the joint grandfather would be a closer match than those of the other siblings.

If Brian & his OH decide to ask for the family to take dna tests then yes, he needs someone from as many siblings as he can find to test. If they are lucky the answer could come quite quickly.

Unfortunately many people that have taken a dna test have absolutely no interest in connecting with family.