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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Darren John

Darren John Report 5 May 2024 07:40

Right so my wife is a Dunbar and she has her tree up but she's hit wall with her gg-grandfather her Dad's name is David Francis Dunbar his Dad's name is Charles Dunbar his father was David Dunbar who was born in 1857 in new York then moved to Chester, Cheshire his father who she's looking for is David marion Dunbar who we think was born in 1807 who married Harriet ruffle Dunbar they moved or emigrated to new York in 1846 , David marion Dunbar was a first officer on the famous clipper ship the driver which went down at sea in 1857..

That's all the information we have she can't seem to find his parents or a birth certificate to clarify his DOB.

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 5 May 2024 08:06

You say moved or emigrated to New York. . From where ?

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 5 May 2024 08:07

Any connection?

First name(s) David M
Attestation corps 4th Battalion Argyll & Sutherland Highlrs Regiment
Last name Dunbar
Document type Attestation
Birth year 1856
Archive reference WO 96
Birth parish St Marys
Series Wo 96 - Militia Service Records 1806-1915
Birth town Chester
Box 1180
Birth county Cheshire
Box record number 350
Birth country England
Archive The National Archives
Service number 1012
Country England
Regiment Argyll And Sutherland Highlanders (Princess Louise's) - 91st & 93rd Foot
Record set British Army Service Records
Year 1886
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Attestation date 05 Jul 1886
Subcategory Regimental & Service Records
Attestation age years 30
Collections from Great Britain, England
Attestation service number 1012

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 5 May 2024 08:16

So presume you got his fathers name from the marriage cert

David Dunbar in 1901
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
11, Seaville Street, Chester, Cheshire, England
View original record
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Household members (8 people)
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First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
David Dunbar Head Married Male 44 1857 General labourer United States
Martha Dunbar Wife Married Female 41 1860 - Cheshire, England
Elizabeth Dunbar Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Cheshire, England
Edna E Dunbar Daughter - Female 10 1891 - Cheshire, England
Dorothy M Dunbar Daughter - Female 8 1893 - Cheshire, England
David F Dunbar Son - Male 5 1896 - Cheshire, England
Charles F Dunbar Son - Male 3 1898 - Cheshire, England
Rose M Dunbar Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Cheshire, England

Marriages Sep 1878
DUNBAR David Chester 8a 549
FAIRBROTHER Martha Chester 8a 549


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 08:55

1807 is far too early for birth certs. First issued in England/Wales in July1837, and in Scotland in 1855

Try Scotland’s People for a possible baptism record (one assumes the origins are in Scotland)

Where did you find the migration record?

And the name of his wife?

Have you found their marriage?


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 08:56

GOOGLE his name and find a link to info on a tree on familysearch, which you may need to verify


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 09:04

The Driver was lost at sea in February 1856…………


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 09:33

The military record posted above is for a single man, born in Chester, and living in Lincoln


Jink20 Report 5 May 2024 11:16

From the Ships List website---- just for info as the Driver was mentioned

"Jun 23, 1856

The clipper ship Driver sailed from Liverpool on the 12th February last, with a crew of 22 men and 6 officers, together with 344 passengers, since which time she has not been heard of, and her owners give her up as lost. The Driver was a fine clipper, two years old, of 1,594 tons. She had on board a Liverpool cargo of dry goods and salt, and was fully insured. Daniel Ogden was the owner of the vessel, and Tapscott & Co., the parties to whom the cargo and passengers were consigned.

The following is a list of the officers of the Driver. The crew was shipped in Liverpool, and the owners have not as yet received their names.

Nicholas Hobberton Master
D.M. Dunbar First Officer *********************************
William Mooney Second Officer
John Duffy Third Officer
Eugene Lambert Steward
William George Cook "


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 12:21

name: David Marion Dunbar
age: 43 years
date of death: 00/02/1856 [dd/mm/yyyy]
date of birth: 1812
type: crew
rank: First Officer
regiment: US Merchant Marine
wreck: SV Driver David Ogden & Co. (Red Cross Line)
cause lost:
missing remarks: country: United Kingdom
entered by: Jan Lettens
entered: 19/11/2018
last update: Quigley Martin
last update: 08/03/2024 Read more at wrecksite:


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 12:31

New York directories have an address for a David M Dunbar, Mariner, as 144 Ninth - between 1846 and 1852


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 12:46

Name David Dunbar
Gender Male
Marital Status Single
Marriage Date 2 Sep 1878
Marriage Place St Mary, Chester, Cheshire, England
Father David Dunbar
Spouse Martha Fairbrother
FHL Film Number 2045845
Reference ID item 3 p 185


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 13:33

David, born New York, appears to be in a GR member’s tree. Try making contact

Charles Frederick born Chester is in two trees


ArgyllGran Report 5 May 2024 14:33

David Marion Dunbar is in 38 trees on Ancestry.

The trees all have him as born 1857 or 1856 in NY - but none of the supporting records give a middle name for him.

His father is said to be David Marion Dunbar, DOB unknown, and his mother Harriet Ruffell (note spelling) .

However, the trees have the wrong Harriet Ruffell. (How do they know David's mother was Harriet Ruffell? )

According to the trees, Harriet was born and brought up in Chester, and born c1830.
One tree (possibly more) suggests that David 1857 may have been born in NY because Harriet may have had to go there in connection with his father's death, which happened while she was pregnant with young David.

However, that would imply that she married David Marion Dunbar in Cheshire - but there's no record of that.

The trees say that her parents were Benjamin Ruffell and Ann Jarvis - but then go on to show her in 1841 and 1851 censuses, born c 1836, with parents WILLIAM and Ann, in Great Boughton.

William and Ann's daughter is NOT the right one, as she married William Criddle in 1859 and is in later censuses as Criddle.

The only baptism of a Harriet Ruffell in Cheshire with father Benjamin was in 1820 , in an unnamed parish.

Harriet Ruffell
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
Name Harriet Ruffell
Christening Date 26 Apr 1820
Christening Place Of This Parish
Father's Name Benjamin Ruffell
Mother's Name Ann Ruffell
Event Type Other
Image Number 574

I don't know what proof they have of David Marion Dunbar's wife's age or father's name, nor why they assume she was born in England.

A woman named Harriet Dunbar certainly died in Great Boughton in 1859 - but aged 29, so not either of the Harriets above.

The trees also say that David's DOB was 27 July 1856 - but give no proof.
(Maybe that's from his military record, which gives his age as 58 year 151 days, on 6 Oct 1914. I haven't done the arithmetic.)

Do you have any documentary proof that David 1857/1856's mother was named Harriet Ruffell/Ruffle ? or have you assumed that other people's trees are correct?


ArgyllGran Report 5 May 2024 14:50

Erika mentioned that David M Dunbar was listed in New York 1846-52.

He was still listed there in 1857 - but maybe the list was compiled the year before ??:

David M Dunbar
in the U.S., City Directories, 1822-1995
Name David M Dunbar
Residence Year 1857
Street Address 179 Av B
Residence Place New York, New York, USA
Occupation Seaman
Publication Title New York, New York, City Directory, 1857

He's still listed in 1858 - so presumably not the right man.


ArgyllGran Report 5 May 2024 14:56

This man was British, and apparently born approx. 1816/1817.

". . he . . says that he has arrived at the age of 21 years, and that at the time he arrived in the United States, he had not attained his eighteenth year, and that for the continued term of five years last past, including three years of his minority, he has resided within the same, and for one year within the State of New York. . . . "

David M Dunbar
in the New York, U.S., State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1794-1943
Name David M Dunbar
Record Type Naturalization
Naturalization Date 7 Nov 1838


Jink20 Report 5 May 2024 15:19

1. David M Dunbar
Migration • New York, County Naturalization Records, 1791-1980

Name David M Dunbar
Event Type Naturalization
Event Date 1838
Event Place New York, United States
Certificate Number 27
Volume Naturalization index no date Duffy, K-Egan, M
2. New York Births and Christenings, 1640-1962

Name Elizabeth Burnett Dunbar
Birth Date 24 Jun 1839
Father's Name David M. Dunbar ****
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Mary Ann ****
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening
Event Date 19 Sep 1839
Event Place New York City, New York County, New York, United States


3. And just to confuse the matter

Census • New York State Census, 1855
Place: E.D. 9, Ward 11, New York City, New York, New York, United States

Name David Dunbars (listed as born Scotland, Mariner)
Sex Male
Age 48 years
Birth Date 1807
Relationship to Head of Household Head

Spouses and Children

Harriet Dunbars (born England)
F 35

Ellen Dunbars
F 11

Event Type Census
Event Date 1855
Event Place New York City, New York, United States
Line Number 5


But there is the following marriage with similar Mother's first names as entry 2 above

Name Mary Ann Spears
Gender Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 29 Jan 1832
Parish Liverpool, St Michael, Lancashire, England
Spouse David Dunbar ********************

EDIT **** Spouse's occupation Mariner *****

So I'm going to ask
a) Is David listed in 1855 Census ,New York as a Mariner (born Scotland) the same
David M sought after?
b) Married twice? Once to Mary Ann and then Harriett
c) Two different David's
d) Go sit in a corner and be quiet, as I've lost the plot


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 15:34

The tree to which I made reference at 08:56 has Mary Ann Spears as the wife of the man who died in Feb 1856, aged 43, but as I said, it needs to be verified, as does all online info.

There is an 1850 census record attached…………..


Jink20 Report 5 May 2024 15:38

Census 1850 New York City, New York County, New York, United States
Enumerator made an error in the 1855 Census re birthplaces??

Name David (illegible) M Dunbar
Sex Male
Age 42 years
Birth Year (Estimated) 1808
Birthplace England

Mary Ann Dunbar
F 37 years

Elizth Dunbar
F 10 years
New York

Ellen Dunbar
5 years
New York


ErikaH Report 5 May 2024 15:44

Fuller details from FMP on the marriage above

He is a Bachelor, and a Mariner and there is no record of a second forename
The marriage was By Licence on 29th Feb1832 at St Michael’s Church, Upper Pitt Street, Liverpool
Witnesses: John Greggs and John McCulloch

The bride’s surname looks more like Shears on the image……..