Genealogy Chat

Thank you DetEcTive and Argyll Gran its appreciated.

Julie -

As already advised on your other thread:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1372351

it's extremely unlikely that anyone who knew her will happen upon your threads here.

On both threads, we have found everything there is about her in online records, so you probably won't get any more info from the helpers here, simply because there isn't anything more to find.

But see DetEcTive's suggestions above. Worth a try.

That’s a bit of a tall order, Julie. After such a length of time, neighbours would have died or moved away.

How about placing an advert in a local paper? The Chepstow Beacon seems to have an online presence. Alternatively, see if there’s a Chepstow social media site on, say, Facebook.

Presumably you’ve already used the Search all Member trees, top right under Search? Contact anyone who lists your grandmother in their tree as they may be related in some way.

Apologies not used to adding to threads so giving the question again.

Hi I know this may be a long shot but would anyone remember an Ethel Hobbs (nee Rogers) who resided at 7 Howells Row, in Chepstow between 1956 and 1959?

She was my Grandma. Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks Julie

further help please see post dated 5 Jun 2018 10:59

Many thanks julie

'Previous marriage dissolved' is the way registrars record on marriage certs that there has been a divorce. It's a legal term

Yes, bigamy was illegal - that's why they told lies.

No way of checking divorces for recent times - records are routinely destroyed after a certain period of time.

The fact that the marriage cert indicates they were both divorced means they produced documents to back up the statements

Thought Bigamy was illegal even back then?

Why does it say marriage dissolved and divorced? is there a difference?

Maybe George Hobbs had his marriage dissolved as my grandma was admitted into a Mental Hospital in 1934?

Is there anywhere to check divorces on line please?

Many thanks

The probable answer is that they didn't get divorced until after 1942 - when it became a bit easier.

They didn't legally marry in 1942 - they went through a bigamous ceremony which was not valid.

If Bessie had been divorced by 1954, then that was her official status - the fact that her ex-husband had died was irrelevant .

Hi

Just to update received the marriage certificate for 1954 and under condition it says for George Hobbs previous marriage dissolved, it also says for Bessie Georgina Hodge previous marriage dissolved? Wonder why it does not say deceased for Bessie's husband? If the case is that both marriages were dissolved then why did they have to marry again in 1954? when they had married in 1942?

Many thanks Julie

Yes, for that length of time it does sound as if she was an inmate - unless maybe just as an unmarried mother-to-be, up until the birth ?

(Sorry - I haven't read the whole thread in detail.)

Laura did have family, mum, dad and siblings so do not really know why she was admitted into the workhouse to have my grandma Ethel?

Hello Argyle Gran

Laura was in from August 1899 to December 1900 I understand so would you say that would have not made her an pauper inmate?

Don't know if they would have taken photos or not.

Pen-Y-Fal - the records are with Gwent Records Office, apparently:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=984

http://www.gwentarchives.gov.uk/

Re Newport Union workhouse - workhouses often doubled as hospitals, so Laura might not have actually been a pauper inmate.
If she was only there for the birth, I don't think they would have taken a photo.

Again, Gwent Archives would be the likely place to have records.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Newport/

Records
Note: many repositories impose a closure period of up to 100 years for records identifying individuals.

[ Re Newport] -
Gwent Archives, Steelworks Road, Ebbw Vale NP23 6DN. Holdings include: Guardians' minute books (1836-1927, with gaps); Admissions and discharges (1837-1950, with gaps); Births (1837-1925); Deaths (1837-1914); Creed register (1893-1927, incomplete); etc.



By the way, the name Ethel Winfred Hobbs sounds very familiar. Did you have another thread about her some time ago?
I can't find it.

Hi Erika will do, have now ordered the marriage cert.

Is there any way you could help with:- If there would have been photos taken in workhouses on admittance or discharge? My great grandma Laura Rogers had Ethel in Newport Union Workhouse in September 1899. I thought maybe as she had Ethel in the workhouse there may have been a photo of Great Grandma Laura taken at that time.

Also the same with my grandma Ethel when she was admitted/discharged in/from Pen-Y-Fal Hospital? would there have been a photo taken?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

This link tells you what records are available, and who holds them.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=984

As she'd been a patient for such a long time its possible that they may have a photo of your grandmother. You need to ask.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/a?_ref=218

You can’t assume that the 1954 marriage was legal until you see what the cert says

Bear in mind that Bessie still used her maiden name

Let us know the outcome - I’ve got quite intrigued with this

Thanks Erika so even though it was legal in 1954 for Bessie to marry my grandad George it clearly wasn't when his first wife Ethel my grandma was still alive and did not die until 1980.

It is a very sad case in that My grandma Ethel Rogers whom I never knew was born in Newport Union Workhouse in September 1899 to a Laura Anne Rogers. Sadly my grandma Ethel was admitted into the Pen-Y-Fal Mental Hospital in around 1934 after the birth of her fifth child with what we now know as post natal depression. My father was 5 when his mum went into the mental hospital and he and his other siblings were told she had died therefore no one knew anything until 1980 when pen-y-fal hospital contacted my father and his other siblings to let them know she had passed away but sadly again as the authorities had been trying to locate the family grandma had been buried months before.

I therefore have not seen any photos of grandma nor of my great grandma Laura (wondered if as she had Ethel in the workhouse there may have been a photo of my great grandma taken at that time or any photo of grandma Ethel when she was admitted into Pen-y-Fal Hospital, any guidance there would be much appreciated too.

I have the birth certificate and that is how I found out Ethel was born in Newport Union Workhouse in September 1899 to Laura Ann Rogers (my great grandma).

I can now order the marriage cert of my grandad but considering he lied to his 5 children about their mum dying in 1934 then it does not suprise me about his marriages to Bessie Hodge. Kind regards Julie

Obviously, the 1942 marriage wasn't legal, which is why they tried again in 1954, after Bessie's legal husband had died.

Forest of Dean is very close to Chepstow - they must have thought that by popping over the border, they could get away with it.

Whatever that cert says, it's probably a lie - certainly is in Bessie's case, as she used her maiden name

The 1954 one is the only one which could possibly be of any use to you

was able to find it by putting in hobbs and then hodge and the forest of dean district. Not sure how far forest of dean district is from Chepstow but how can that marriage have been legal? if Bessie was married also as well as my grandad, do you think that certificate may show something, i.e. status of George Hobbs? and her status too?

How could they marry again in 1954, this is so confusing.

Many thanksJulie

Go to the freebmd search page - click on this link

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Select marriages

Put in Hobbs under surname then Hodge under spouse surname and click find

Marriages Dec 1942 (>99%)
Hobbs George H Hodge F.of Dean 6a 779

When you get this result - click on the page number