Genealogy Chat

I am trying to find out information regarding my great grandfather. He is proving to be quite elusive. I have a birth certificate and there is no father named and the surname is slightly different, but his actual birth date is the same as my great grandfather on the 1939 register. There is a gap in my research between his birth in 1868 and the census in 1881 where I cannot find anything about him. I have obtained his marriage certificate and a father is named on there (adopted maybe) but the father named on that has the same surname as he has. I have been searching the Irish and Scottish records to see if he spent the missing years there. I am getting a little frustrated. I have lots of facts but just have to find the missing link. Has anyone any hints as to how to approach this from a diffierent angle and find the link.

If no father is named on the birth cert, the ‘father’ on the marriage cert was fictitious. He didn’t want the in-laws to know he was illegitimate

If you want people to help, post name and location info.

Thanks ErikaH, I did suspect that. This is what I actually know. His name was John William Hamilton born at 12 Cavendish Street Barrow in Furness in 1868. On his birth certificate he is named as John William Ambleton, but his mother Ann signed it with an x so was probably illiterate. His actual date of birth is 11 March 1868. (This matches my great grandfathers as on 1939 Register). I have found nothing for years 1868 to 1881. In the 1881 census aged 13 he was 'boarding' with a couple called Mary and Thomas Lee. Mary was 20 years older than Thomas and a widow when they married and her previous married name was Hamilton. I think maybe Mary's previous marriage is key to finding out about John William. Both Mary and Thomas were born in Tarleton Lancashire. They married in 1853 in Ormskirk. They moved to Ulverston/Barrow in Furness by 1871.

Just because I found it before reading the rest of the post. Is this Ann possibly
his sister??


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Raglan Street, Barrow, Ulverston, Lancashire, England


Thomas Lee Head - Male 40 1831 - Lancashire, England
Mary Lee Wife - Female 61 1810 - Lancashire, England
Margaret Lee Daughter - Female 19 1852 - Lancashire, England
Ann Hamilton Granddaughter - Female 5 1866 - Lancashire, England

Just for our info

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
12, Lorne Road, Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Lee Head Married Male 50 1831 Brickmaker Tarlton, Lancashire, England
Mary Lee Wife Married Female 68 1813 - Tarlton, Lancashire, England
John W Hamilton Boarder Single Male 13 1868 Scholar Barrow, Lancashire, England

Ann is born Tarleton on census, which is Ormskirk

maybe?

HAMILTON, ANNE -
GRO Reference: 1865 D Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 677

Just whilst hunting around

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Gorse Lane, Tarleton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Lee Head Married Male 50 1811 Agricultural Labourer Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Mary Lee Wife Married Female 49 1812 - Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Margaret Lee Daughter - Female 8 1853 - Tarleton, Lancashire, England

Pretty sure Thomas' age on original shows as 30

------------------------------
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)

HAMILTON Mary Ormskirk 8b 885
LEE Thomas Ormskirk 8b 885

Thanks everyone. I did think that Ann Hamilton (Grandaughter) on 1871 census is John William's sister was a possibility which is why I think that Mary Lee (Hamilton) is the key. I don't know what her maiden name was and who she was married to before Thomas or if she stayed in Tarleton/Ormskirk from birth to marrying Thomas.

Thanks I will check out the birth information given.

Mary also had a daughter called Ann who was born in 1839/1842, who could possibly be John William's mother, but I cannot find a record of her being in Barrow in Furness where John William was born.

You are correct regarding Thomas' age. He was around 20 years younger than Mary.

? Daughter Margaret born pre marriage of Mary to Thomas - no mmn showing.

So was Mary actually a widow when she married Thomas or was that for respectability? Or Thomas possibly the Father but not named at the time.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
HAMILTON, MARGARET -
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 481

??Is this Mary - shown as a widow here, possibly again for respectability, (with a daughter Ann old enough to be John William's Mother)

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Blackgate Lane, Tarleton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary Hamilton Head Widow Female 39 1812 Char Woman Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Anne Hamilton Daughter - Female 9 1842 Scholar Tarleton, Lancashire, England

On 1851 Census Mary and her daughter listed as living in Blackgate Lane,Ormskirk and May age 39 is listed as a widow. On 1871 census Thomas Mary and their Daughter Margaret (b 1852?) are listed as living in Barrow. Mary and Thomas were married in Ormskirk in 1853.

Marriage: 28 Sep 1853 St Mary, Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Thomas Lee - (X), 23, Labourer, Bachelor, Tarleton
Mary Hamilton - (X), 39, Spinster, Tarleton*****************************************
Groom's Father: Thomas Lee, Labourer
Bride's Father: William Hamilton, Labourer
Witness: Peter Hamilton, (X); Margaret Lee, (X)
Married by Banns by: John Nicklin Offs. Minister
Register: Marriages 1837 - 1881, Page 95, Entry 189
Source: LDS Film 1278941

Thanks Erika H. Thanks for that information. So Mary wasn't married previously and Hamilton was her maiden name. Maybe Peter was her brother?
I can pick up lots of research from this information. Thank you so much. I presume the 'X' mean they could not write. On John Ambleton/Hamiltons birth certificate his mother Ann's name is represented by an X. I presume this was commonplace at the time.

??? Peter the witness with possibe parents - William and Ann (Mary's Father named as William on marriage record posted.) There are brothers William and John.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Sollom, Croston, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
William Hamilton Male 60 1781 Lancashire, England Labourer
Ann Hamilton Female 55 1786 Lancashire, England
Margaret Hamilton Female 25 1816 Lancashire, England
Peter Hamilton Male 12 1829 Lancashire, England
William Hamilton Male 9 1832 Lancashire, England
John Hamilton Male 2 1839 Lancashire, England
Betty Ascroft Female 2 1839 Lancashire, England

William and Ann show bottom of one page and rest overleaf and top of page.

Other Hamilton and Ashcroft families in close proximity

Margaret's baptism would also indicate she was not previously married.

Baptism: 1 Aug 1852 St Mary, Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Margaret Hamilton - [Child] of Mary Hamilton, Spinster
Abode: Tarleton
Baptised by: H. Inman Offg. Minis.
Register: Baptisms 1839 - 1888, Page 90, Entry 717
Source: LDS Film 1278941

Possibly Peter 1851 and brother William

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Smith Lane, Tarleton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Wignall Head Married Male 38 1813 Farmer Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Alice Wignall Wife Married Female 40 1811 Farmer's Wife Lancashire, England
Alice Wignall Niece - Female 5 1846 Scholar Leyland, Lancashire, England
Sarah Gaskell Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 House Servant Lancashire, England
Hugh Miller Servant Unmarried Male 20 1831 Farm Lab Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Peter Hamilton Servant Unmarried Male 23 1828 Farm Lab Tarleton, Lancashire, England
William Hamilton Servant Unmarried Male 17 1834 Farm Lab Tarleton, Lancashire, England

Carleton and Sollom / Croston (1841 census) a couple of miles apart

? other children of William and Ann

Baptism: 8 May 1814 St Mary, Tarleton, Lancashire, England
James Hamilton - [Child] of William Hamilton & Ann
Abode: Tarlton
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: J. M. Hodgson
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1838, Page 10, Entry 73
Source: LDS Film 1278941

Baptism: 5 May 1816 St Mary, Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Margaret Hamilton - [Child] of William Hamilton & Ann
Abode: Holmes
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: J. M. Hodgson Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1838, Page 26, Entry 203
Source: LDS Film 1278941

and
Baptism: 25 Feb 1821 St Mary, Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hamilton - Daughter of William Hamilton & Anne
Born: 30 Jan 1821
Abode: Tarleton
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Edwd. Master Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1838, Page 64, Entry 512
Source: LDS Film 1278941

This latter shows on Family Search as Hambleton which takes you almost back to John William's birth cert. where John William shown as Ambleton

Thank you all. This information is making me think that maybe one of Mary's brothers was John William's father. John married Sarah Alice Dixon and on their marriage certificate there is a father named as Thomas Hamilton who was a farm labourer. The male witness on the certificate was a farmers son. So maybe John's father worked at their farm? I have lots of research to do.

Thanks Again

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Smith Lane, Tarleton, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Hamilton Head Married Male 71 1780 Ag Lab Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Anne Hamilton Wife Married Female 67 1784 - Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Margaret Hamilton Daughter Unmarried Female 39 1812 - Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Betty Caunce Daughter Married Female 29 1822 Ag Labourer's Wife Tarleton, Lancashire, England
William Caunce Son In Law Married Male 31 1820 Ag Lab Rufford, Lancashire, England
James Caunce Grand Son - Male 5 1846 - Tarleton, Lancashire, England
Mary Caunce Grand Daughter - Female 2 1849 - Tarleton, Lancashire, England

You say that the witness to the 1889 marriage was a farmer's son. I have never known the occupation of the witnesses to be recorded on a marriage cert

You are unlikely ever to know who his father was. The only hope would be if he was named on the baptism record, if there is one