General Chat

My favourite lesson at school was English and I was good at English Grammar (passed O level), I liked English Literature but didn't retain enough knowledge to pass it at O level. as an adult passed it at A level with an A grade!

I was thinking of the parts of grammar I used to enjoy which were, Precis, punctuation and comprehension.

Did you learn English that way and did you enjoy it?
Do they teach these things now?

Comprehension, I can remember you were given a word and you had to put it into a sentence.
Precis you were given a long paragraph that you had to cut down into a shorter paragraph that still retained the same meaning. This really came in useful for me when I had to compose signals when I worked for MOD.
Punctuation is self explanatory, unfortunately I have not retained my knowledge of this and often forget to punctuate correctly. I put this down to writing things on chat forums etc!!!!

Ann
Glos

I Didn't do well in English and i never know when to use the correct Punctuation but i have learnt a lot since having my children and them coming home with their homework.

Yes, I passed English Grammar and English Literature at "O" Level although they weren't my favourite subjects.

I still find myself cringing when I read some posts on GR and wonder what some English teachers spent their time doing. I think texting has a lot to answer for!!

Kath. x

I also think we read a lot more than most children do these days

Ann, I so agree with you, and Kathleen, I so agree with your second sentence. Sometimes when I read the threads, I cannot make head nor tale of them, through poor use of correct grammer, and poor punctuation. When that be so, I do not bother with them
I took my 'A' level English Literature when in my early fifties, about 10yrs. ago
Julia in Derbyshire

I have learned to accept the bad with the good on here as I realise that for some people it must have been an effort to write something on the boards. I think you learn to decipher things as they are meant to be. And I am guilty of bad typing errors sometimes too, not being a touch typist. so I was not really criticizing anyone's posts on here. The reason I put the thread up was to find out how long ago they stopped teaching English the was i was taught. and how is it taught these days?

I am always in too much of a hurry to watch my punctuation! BC XX

My eldest son is 36 years old and I remember when he was in the first year Junior class (so about 30 years ago), he had to write a short essay - only one page - and he came home very pleased with himself because he got 9 and a half out of 10 and a "very good" written by the teacher.

I read the essay and was appalled to see that he had about 10 spelling mistakes in just one page. When I later asked his teacher why they hadn't been corrected and why he had nevertheless got a good mark, she said that she didn't like to discourage children from writing by pointing out spelling mistakes. I'm afraid I pointed out in no uncertain terms that I thought this was wrong and that if mistakes weren't corrected at the time then he would always spell these words incorrectly.

Kath. x

Sorry Ann, I did not want to appear over critical. When I was 16, nearly 50 years ago, I learned shorthand and typing. You had to know how to spell and punctuate for when you transcribed your shorthand back. Mistakes were not tolerated, and you would be down marked for errors. It has therefore, become a habit of a lifetime, to do it correctly. I too make typing errors these days, and occasionally spelling mistakes. But I do agree with you about the way English is taught today.
Julia in Derbyshire

I went through the Grammar School English Lit and Lang education and certain things stick.

Not starting a sentence with a conjunction, although apparently is it acceptable nowadays.

John and I, not John and me or me and John etc., etc.,

I always corrected my children and they remember the ground rules too. I hate sloppy grammar but I have to accept that, according to the current education guidelines, any spelling and grammar will get you a 'pass' as long as the required content is decipherable.

Sue x

I too remember commenting on an essay written by my Grandson with bad spelling, apparently accepted by the teacher. when queried daughter was told that it would stop him using his imagination if his spelling was corrected. He is 20 now and still can't spell!! Even though he is intelligent

That was my point Ann. I suppose in some jobs it really doesn't matter whether or not you can spell, but in others it does and if a lot of people apply for just one job then I'm sure that those who can fill in a form properly without mistakes must have a head start on the others.

Kath. x

"English speech is no honourable guide to English spelling".
(Author unknown).

Is that a quote by you Dermot or attributable to somebody else?

Too True Dermot. If I hear another person pronounce the word 'Decade' as 'Decayed', I will explode!!

Politicians are prone to this, so perhaps it's an admission of what they have done to the country over the past 10 years!!

I think children are definitely taught English in a way that is totally different to when I was at school.... however, although we had lessons in grammar, where we had to underline verbs etc... apart from the very basics, the rest went straight over my head... far too much like maths, I suppose, all that structure and those rules...

For instance, I wouldn't know what a conjucti-wotsit was if it hit me in the eye.. or at least I wouldn't be able to point it out in a sentence... and try to explain and I glaze over!! I am sure I use them, though, and probably 9 times out of 10 correctly!!

I loved precis, too, Ann... but poor Mrs Williams used to despair of me, because I always ended up with a precis longer than the original text... now I bet you're not surprised at that!! ;¬)) lol

I loved English, but hated the so-called literature that they insisted we read... still do hate many of the *set books* I had to read at secondary and grammar school, having given them a second reading as an adult. However, my head was always in a book, and I was an avid reader of all non-classics.

I think someone else said it all earlier.. the key is in what children read.... the more they read the more they pick up, and the better their written work becomes. Children do not, in general, read as much as they used to.

Finally... I don't really mind how others write on the boards, as long as I can understand it, but as an employer, very poor, illegible written English would have put you on the back burner as far as a job application was concerned... the use of legible and understandable English was essential in the reports staff had to write. But legible English doesn't always need to be correctly spelt, either!!

Love

Daff xxxx

ps, Mrs Williams loved me, lol She wanted me to study English at university, as she said I was a *natural writer*, lol still not sure what she meant. When I eventually did my O and A levels as an adult, my English tutor wanted me to study English and Journalism. So in spite of not understanding the mechanics of the language, I was still considered to be fairly good at it. The fear of these *mechanics* stopped me from taking up the place I was offered. I was sooooo afraid of looking stupid in amongst all those clever people!!

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

T now wants to know what made me burst out laughing. Daff, I am, of course, not at all surprised that you could precis something and make it longer Lol Lol!!!!

My grammar these days is confined to trying to spell and punctuate more or less correctly, I think I do most things automatically but couldn't point out split infinitives etc.

All my three eldest Grandsons read a lot and all of them spell badly!!!! I think spelling badly may also be down to the way children were/are taught to read. we started by learning the alphabet, lower case, upper case and their sounds. we then put together 3 letter words Cat, mat etc and built up from there. Don't think they do it that way now or did in grandson's time either.

Now for an embarrassing moment * whispers. I went to English Literature with Language A level classes at Chelmsford college one half day a week. (actually finished the course in Gloucestershire because we moved. however, I digress), For some reason our tutor liked us to read round the class out loud. This class consists of about 3 adults and the rest about 17/18 years old. My turn to read and, quite without thinking I read the word misled (mis-led) as missled. The whole class burst out laughing, talk about embarrassed!!!

I was the same as Julia, learned Shorthand Typing, and had to be correct.
I worked in Export, and my bosses used to say 'These people you are writing to, can only just about speak English, so you have to be correct in spelling and punctuation'.

My flesh creeps when I hear some of the sentences used today, and my bug bear is 'This moment in time'. Why can't they say 'Now'.

Mo

Trddys Girl - you have just bought a memory back for me. Some years after learning shorthand and typing, I went to work in an Export Department of a well know stockings manufacturer. The head of deparment even used to correct my shorthand if I had written the wrong symbol. I think he had been someone important's PPS, in the Colonies, and old habits died hard for him. Definitely slapped fingers for me
Julia in Derbyshire

"The chief virtue that language can have is clearness & nothing detracts from it so much as the use of unfamiliar words".
(Hippocrates 460-370BC).