General Chat

Hiya T, thank you... your comment about the reporting to the IPCC as routine I made in an earlier post.... I think that was ignored, certainly no comment was made, so thank you for reiterating that, too. It is standard practice.

Also, tasering has a similar effect to a self defence technique I was taught many years ago... most people say if you are attacked and being held onto, go for the, well, the delicate male area, lol... but that actually has a *scrunching* reflex action, and you are more likely to be firmly locked in... so a quick sharp splatt with something that has a reflex of drawing back and opening up is better. A set of keys is good as is a taser. And then run as fast as you can, lol

Just as a point of interest, no taser marks have been found. Mouts family may request a second post mortem, which I think might be good, as it will rule out conspiracy theories.

Love

Daff xxxx

Well said Daff....

Just as a matter of interest the shock from a taser causes a 'stretching' reflex and not a 'squeezing' one.

But then, we can't just accept that Northumbria Police may have acted properly.

Incidentally, The involvemrnt og the IPCC has nothing to do with the man's death - although it will of course form part of the investigation - but the Police referred the case to them three days before the stand off. It is also standard operating procedures when weapons have been drawn.

Lol yes... but there were one or two things that some folk might have felt uncomfortable with...

so, here it is, an edited version of what I actually put.

**Gill
Today at 18:29 Request review
There is a big difference in pulling a trigger yourself and being forced to do it by a taser gun shooting through you!
Add

(edited bit) As I said before... they could have shot him with bullets, real live bullets. (Edit) We do not know what happened... only those who were there do... so (Edited) it is no use any of us second guessing, we do not know, we were not there.

(Biggish edit)

So... you are saying that the police were responsible for the death of this man, because they tasered him? Because it would seem that tasering can, in some circumstances, cause a reflex trigger finger jerk?

So... lets second guess this, (Edit) and look at what we do *know*. These armed police, had a number of hours, lots of ammunition, and weaponry, but chose instead to feed him, negotiate, bring a friend to talk to him, negotiate some more... and then chose not to shoot him, but to taser him... the lesser risk, and more chance of him staying alive? And yet you imply that they are at fault (slight edit) by your statement

***There is a big difference in pulling a trigger yourself and being forced to do it by a taser gun shooting through you!*** (Edit this wasn't added in the first post except at the beginning... but as these words were Gill's own, c & p'd by me, I thought they had some relevence now so dropped them in to support my argument and opinion)

(Edit one sentence)

Lets see what happens. But I still think the police acted bravely, honourably, and tried desperately to keep Moat from killing himself and others. The truth will out over the next few weeks. Well done the police, I am proud of what hey tried to do, and how they tried to contain him.

So. I still stand by that.

PMSL @ Joy

**shocked ** this is still here I see Daffs post has been removed..:))

You can't pull a trigger by an involuntary movement. Significant pressure is required.

Or is this perhaps because it's Northumbria Police?

It is awful for everyon involved and blaming the police is hardly constructive either Gill............unless we were actually there, who are we to judge and place blame on anyone.

Seeing a man die in front of your eyes is too awful to even think about, that will live with all involved for a very long time I would imagine, whatever the circumstances leading up to it.

Whether an ambulance arrived within a minute or half hour makes no odds really does it. He blew himself in the head (as I understand it) so nothing could have been done for him!!

These situations are always sad. Like throwing a pebble in a pond - the ripples are far reaching. As you say Rose - what makes a person suddenly turn feral.

Sue x

I agree with you Sue,

once he was a nice little boy with bad asthma that hopefully someone loved. I don't think any of us know or ever will what changes someone, what combination of personalty traits make someone so angry that they can't restrain the urge to hurt or kill someone...

God knows I have felt like killing someone before now, but my 'upbringing' kicks in, my 'sense' kicks in , my innate kidness (lol ) kicks in, anger is taken out some other way... lucky isn't it?

We all make a decision at some time which may or may not take us down the wrong path, he made the wrong ones, no one will miss him but I can't say I have no sympathy for him.

And that is not to in any way minimise what he did, or take any sympathy from his victims.

Let's not forget this man has children too. While what I've read about this situation doesn't make me feel sorry for the man himself - I do feel for his family. They have to live with this.

My heart also goes out to the victims of this man's crimes.

Sue x

What a sad, sad story this was, all around.

Of course the police had no choice but to do what they did.

But let's not forget that that this was a troubled man.

I, for one, don't take any joy in the fact that him being dead "saved the country money". He had parents and children, who have to live with this, just as the parents and children of his victims have to face another day.

As for Gazza being there, spare a thought for another troubled soul. Does anyone really think that this is how England's centre - forward say himself

Sue x

I've saved it up till now... don't usually do that..... but heck, it's been a bad couple of days in the news and I do hate it when people who know nothing.... as the title says, are *guessing* ... spout such silliness, pointing a finger of blame at people who have done their utmost to preserve life, and who were, actually, at the sharp end, unlike the rest of us sitting uncomfortably in our living rooms watching the whole desperate thing unfold......

I shall save this, too....

I would bet good money that the author of this thread has deleted it by midday tomorrow :)))

PMSL @ Joy :o))

if gazza went round saying he was my mate
i would of shot myself to

i think the police did the right thing
he had proved he was a killer
why should he endanger the police or anybody else

Mildred summed it up for me in one line.....

"Moat was not the victim, those he killed are."

Hayley..
Thats what my son has just said ...training to be police officer..!!

Volts from a tazer would have paralized him.

Gill if he was pointing at a gun at any of your family wouldn't you wanted them to have used it.

Hayley I thought that also that the taser would have paralized him, could a reaction have pulled the trigger. who really cares.So better he shot himself as he did

I thought if the taser was fired wouldnt it be to shock him to knock teh gun out of his hands?