General Chat

I am too tired to try now, but will have a look this evening Barry. I had a quick peek and the shows look interesting.

I watched a programme last evening which I recorded earlier on Sunday evening, called Toughest Place to be: last week was a paramedic in Guatamala (sp) and this week's was a Bus driver in Manila. The chap from London was so moved by the plight of the people he met that he has helped raise some money for the family he stayed with to help the grandkids get an education and hopefully better their lives in future.
Manila was a crazy place, couldn't have coped with driving there or even the way so many lived.
Another good prog which I recorded a while back was This World, Pakistan's Flood Doctor. What an amazing man, so full of the milk of human kindness. Sometimes with all the bad stuff in the world we forget there are decent caring people who will do their best to improve life for others less fortunate than themselves.

Lizx

So very sad to read about your Kate those many years ago, Liz. Girls in that situation must have had an awful time and thought there was nothing good in life for them. I wonder how many took their life - and perhaps that of their child? Their enforced plight really doesn't bear thinking about.

I'm glad you seemed to think along the same lines about the book. I certainly hope the page with the map stays in place. Again, thanks for your help.

BTW, Liz, perhaps you'd like to see if you can access this show:

http://www.history.ca/ontv/titledetails.aspx?titleid=110820&/

Jill, perhaps you'll kindly let us know what you think of The Floating Brothel when you have finished it. Thanks. Enjoy.

Barry

PS Thanks again to Chris for the use of her thread.

Hi Barry, glad you enjoyed the book in part. I was happy to let you have the map and hope the copy you made stays with the book now, in your local library.


I agree that the end was a bit confusing at the end with the numerous names and changes of name or supposition of who was who, was hard to follow, in fact it was confusing during the story too, and I found it a bit hard to follow who was who.
What did get to me tho was, like you, the realisation of the horrors of those times, when people who were desperate for money to buy food stole things or did something that wasn't really so bad as to warrent transportation. At least these days there are usually people, bodies or someone who will look out for our rights.

In those times, there were no rights, you just fended for yourself as best you could unless you came from a wealthy family. Things were very unjust.

I always feel sad about the many young girls sent out to service and who were seduced by the Lord of the Manor or his sons, and consequently sent away with sometimes nothing to pay their way, but a baby to bear and look after. I had a great aunt who went to work with her sister, my grandfather's sisters, and she left there and became a single Mum. She didn't seem to go back to the family home, I can only assume she went elsewhere so as not to shame the family.

I heard about her from my Dad's cousin who died last year, she remembered that Kate did apparently go back to the village at some point, by which time she was married or had a gentleman companion with her, and her illegitimate daughter. She took the girl to see her family home and village but as far as our relative could remember, she wasn't welcomed back and didn't stay in contact with any family members.

So sad,

Lizx


Jill, hope you enjoy The Floating Brothel.

Coming back to this thread as am just about to read the Sian Rees book. OH is involved in an upcoming local amdram production based on a similar story. He is set building - the story based on the top deck of a convict ship. If anyone has any good images that would be much appreciated ... ??? Many thanks.

In the meantime - I found this site - lists convict women to NSW 1788 - 1828: http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/convicts/confem4.html

Jill

I find this a really good website for searching for books

http://www.bookfinder.com/

Last Tuesday I finished The Floating Brothel - and I took it back to the library complete with its new map (see below). I’m not the fastest of readers as I usually have a peek each night before hitting the hay!

This is, without doubt, an extremely well researched book by Sian Rees; full marks for her work. It’s truly disturbing in those desperate times of centuries past to learn how easily an innocent person - particularly those who barely survived from day to day and were trying eek a living - could be detained on the word of another. From that day forward their life was completely ruined after being tried and transported under sail thousand of miles away for so many weeks / months! How these unfortunate folks suffered and felt inside - and survived the arduous journey amid cramped and filthy conditions onboard ship - I truly cannot imagine.

While this book was interesting I found it ‘same same’ early on and a couple of these early (and later) chapters were far too long for my liking. I prefer about six or seven pages so I can see I am making progress and ‘getting there’. (Sometimes I felt I was in Shrek - “Are we there yet?”) I thought it was tangled towards the end when the numerous names and life of those who survived and freed / pardoned was noted.

Her main character, John Nicol, published his memories in the 1820s, which is noted by Sian. I found it interesting that his book (The Life and Adventures of John Nicol, Mariner) is on Amazon - and remarkably there is a review for it dated 1999, two years before this book was published! I wonder if John’s book was Sian’s inspiration for writing The Floating Brothel?

While I do not want to detract from Sian’s wonderful research and her writing, I cannot help but frankly think the success of this book was greatly due to the word ‘brothel’ in the title. It is quite possible many people bought this book and thought they were going to have a ‘juicy’ read about on-board sexcapades so long ago. Ask yourself - do many people (who are not genealogically minded) really care about the life of convicts being sent to distant shores 200 years ago? Most unlikely! This book is anything but juicy in that respect; it is an extremely sad reflection on how folks were so unjustly treated way back when - on land or on the high seas - and how many of them thankfully survived their ordeal. We truly don’t realize how lucky we are with our ‘justice’ system today - regardless the flaws.

Please consider this possibility if you are looking for an ancestor who has suddenly ‘disappeared’ during your research. Perhaps he / she was accused of a crime, then arrested, tried, sentenced, and eventually transported. Whether or not this person might have been freed / pardoned and returned to England years later would also be speculative.

My book did not have the map of the journey for Lady Julian printed at the end. I am very grateful to Liz and her OH who kindly took the time and trouble to scan the map from her book and send it to me. This library book now has the map in place. How fortunate for the next reader!

Gwyn noted for me a website on 19th January. I wrote to these folks and to date - after three weeks - I await a reply

I would still like to read again the 1960s book ‘Diary of Adam Starr’. I shall continue my search.

Ciao.

Barry

That will be lovely if you are able to do a copy for me, Liz.. Many thanks for your kind thought.

The two pages - 236 and 237 - are indeed blank!

Have sent you a PM.

Many thanks,

Ciao.

Barry

I am glad you got a copy of the book and am sure you will find it interesting. I have the hardback copy and the map is printed over two pages near the back, if I can copy it without breaking the spine I could send you a copy perhaps.

Will see what I can do for you later this week Barry.

Lizx

There must have been a loose leaf map at the back of the book showing the journey for the ship, The Lady Julian. Sadly, this map is not in the book. Arrgh!

you may be interested in this free download from Google books

Depraved and disorderly: female convicts, sexuality and gender in Colonial ... By Joy Damousi (edit...whoops already mentioned)

also.....

http://www.notoriousstrumpets.com.au/

One of Daffs female line was mentioned in The floating Brothel. She became quite famous.

We both have a copy and she was looking into the line in depth not long before she first became ill.

After six days I have the book in my hand; I've just returned from the library. For some reason I expected a hard cover edition but the paperback I have will 'work' just as well, I'm sure.

I'll let you know when I finish it.

Barry

Thanks very much, Liz. Not sure what my wife will say, however. lol! I certainly might buy this book next time I order from Amazon.

I have downloaded PDFs from:

youroldbooksandmaps.co.uk

They have some good stuff available. I downloaded some months ago:

'lives of highwaymen, robbers & co.' It's 20MB and 160 pages. Chokka full of text, too! I've also got from there a PDF of officers in the Indian Army. I have to say from the title I thought it included the 'men' as well.

Just finished reading Ranulph Fiennes and Wilfred Thesiger books so perhaps something a little 'lighter' is on the cards later today.

Thanks again for your input, folks. It's always nice to add information to one's thoughts.

Ciao.

Barry

Edit: Liz, my library has Floating Brothel on the shelves and 'no hold'. I'm off now to get it!

PS If I don't post for some time it means I'm having a 'good time' (with my wife, of course!)

Edit 2: Can you believe it wasn't on the shelf per their inventory? What a disappointment. One is apparently on order from another branch.

Barry, you might find the book I mentioned above, interesting, it tells of the conditions aboard and many people died. Also talks of the conditions at the destinations in Australia which is where the Lady Julian was bound.

If you google the book and read some of the reviews on A****n you will see it's worth a read.

Lizx

Janey, thank you so much for that info!! I cannot understand why this info. has not been revealed when I Googled over time! Oh well. At least after all these years I know I wasn't imagining Adam's name!

Now to try and find the book.

I owe you one, Janey - I'll have to pop over and shovel your driveway. (I hope it's a small one!)

Ciao.

Barry

Barry -- if this doesn't work

http://books.google.ca/books?id=cRA8_5BKEz8C&pg=PA220&lpg=PA220&dq=%22adam+starr%22+slave+jamaica&source=bl&ots=g8gIzWrQwk&sig=_l-TmYphZVQATDbQqcGSja4msdY&hl=en&ei=bDE3TZeeKIaKlwe4rcncAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22adam%20starr%22%20slave%20jamaica&f=false

google

"adam starr" slave jamaica

and it's near the top of the results

It's footnote 66 on page 220 of the book

If we must die: shipboard insurrections in the era of the Atlantic Slave Trade
by Eric Robert Taylor

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/452284.If_We_Must_Die

and it reads

Adam Starr, journal entry, August 21, 1781, quoted in McGowan, "African Resistance", 20-21

googling

"african resistance" mcgowan

I find more references to it, but not info about the paper itself! Ah, another book contains this:

W. McGowan, 'African Resistance to the Atlantic Slave Trade in West Africa', [in] Slavery and Abolition, Vol. 11, No. 1 (May 1990), pp. 5-29

I'm just thinking that if you could find that paper, it would have bibliographic info about the Adam Starr journal.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a794049298~frm=titlelink

... It costs $34.00. But maybe the journal Slavery & Abolition is available somewhere you can access it ...

Thank's Gwyn, that's interesting. I might contact them.

Regrettably, I cannot recall where this ship was bound those many years ago. It was possibly an English ship.

Ciao.

Barry

Edit: I have sent e-mail to their history department. A case of 'wait and see'.

Barry
Not what you asked for, but maybe of interest...?

http://www.history.umd.edu/slavery/resources/plummer_diary.php

Gwyn

Yes, I've drawn a blank over the many years in my searches, too, Chris. It's almost as if it never existed!

I wonder if I should contact Oprah!
Jus' askin'. I'd really love to read it again, though.

Thanks for looking tho' Chris.

Ciao.

Barry

Sorry Barry - tried Abe Books - nothing there.