General Chat

thank you for what you ladies have done [gents] its been a real hard one this has its opened up a lot on ancestry I have mailed 2 people about Edwin it looks like they know a bit about Edwin
THANKYOU john

Ann, the idea was that Abell was possibly a married name ...

you have posted the same Mary Edith Abell birth and marriage in Devon as patchem posted above


it probably doesn't matter at all who Mary Edith was (also, she was called Mary Ann in 1911 ... unless that was not the Mary Edith he married ...)

except to find out whether there were more children of Percy Edward/Edwin after 1911

Births Dec 1895
Abell Edith Ledbury 6a 415


1911

Name: Edith Abel
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Niece
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Yarkhill, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: All Saints
County/Island: Herefordshire

Thomas Owen Thomas 32
Sarah Jane Thomas 28
Annie Elizabeth Thomas 45 sister single
Theresa Annie Chambers 22 sister in law single
Edith Abel 15


but no Thomas or Chambers marriage to Abel or Abell to fit

if she had been married before then would she have married Baker in the name of Abell?

Name: Mary Edith Abell
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year: 1888
Registration District: Plymouth
County: Devon
Event Place: Plymouth, Devon, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911):
Volume: 5B
Page: 438
Line Number: 88

Mary Edith Abell probably married one of the following people

Name: George Mellis

????????????

Name: Mary Edith Abell
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year: 1867
Registration District: Stoke Damerel
County: Devon
Event Place: Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3):
Volume: 5B
Page: 345
Line Number: 191

this is not too far from Hereford

Name: Edith Mary Abel
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1873
Registration District: Bromsgrove
County: Worcestershire
Event Place: Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3):
Volume: 6C
Page: 406
Line Number: 167

we have that on page 1 Ann

it's a previous marriage for Mary Edith if any that's needed ...

Name: Mary Edith Abell
Event Type: Marriage
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1901
Registration District: Ledbury
County: Herefordshire
Event Place: Ledbury, Herefordshire, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911):
Volume: 6A
Page: 1011
Line Number: 130


Mary Edith Abell probably married one of the following people
Name: Percy Edward Baker

this seems to be our girl in 1901

Name: Mary E Abell
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Croydon
Civil Parish: Yarkhill
Ecclesiastical parish: Yarkhill
Town: Newtown
County/Island: Herefordshire

Mary E Abell 25 widowed
Edith Abell 5 born Yarkhill


but I didn't see a Mary Edith to Abell marriage ...

I could not find a birth for Mary Edith Abell.

Added:
Unless she really deceived him as to her age:
Births Jun 1867
Abell Mary Edith Stoke D. 5b 345

(In Hereford in 1881 census - but marries in Plymouth in 1888?)

Births Mar 1904
Baker Elsie Jane Ledbury 6a 469

Marriages Mar 1931
Baker Elsie J Coombs Bristol 6a 122
Coombs George S Baker Bristol 6a 122

Name: Elsie Jane Coombs
Birth Date: 24 Dec 1903
Date of Registration: Mar 1971
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: Bristol
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 7b
Page: 595


probable birth to the marriage, you can find it at freebmd as Coombs with mother Baker in Bristol

----------------------

Births Mar 1908
Baker Florence Penelope Newent 6a 294

Marriages Sep 1935
Baker Florence P Bolwell Bristol 6a 416
Bolwell Arthur A Baker Bristol 6a 416

Name: Florence Penelope Bolwell
Birth Date: 12 Jan 1908
Date of Registration: Mar 1990
Age at Death: 82
Registration district: West Super Mare
Inferred County: Somerset
Volume: 22
Page: 1401


births to the marriage, you can find them at freebmd as Bolwell with mother Baker in Bristol

and this would be a matching death for his wife in the same place

Name: Mary E Baker
Birth Date: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Mar 1962
Age at Death: 86
Registration district: Coventry
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 1014

This looks like a possible marriage for Percy Edward Baker:

Marriages Dec 1901
Abell Mary Edith Ledbury 6a 1011
Baker Percy Edward Ledbury 6a 1011

and this could be his death, as there were very few births for Percy E Baker's:

Percy E Baker
Birth Date: abt 1878
Date of Registration: Dec 1953
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Coventry
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 672

John you may be interested in these threads about the same family that someone else posted a few years ago

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/records_office/thread/969074

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/tips_board/thread/726516


also 4 people besides yourself and that person have Felix Baker born 1826-1827 (and one Felix born 1924 in 'England I think') in their trees here at genesreunited, do you know all of them?


and here again is a case where the name in the 1911 census has been corrected by an Ancestry user in 2012 and that person can be contacted through the Ancestry site if you don't know them in case they are part of the family

Name: Gertrude Baker
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year: 1880
Registration District: Ledbury
County: Herefordshire
Event Place: Ledbury, Herefordshire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3):
Volume: 6A
Page: 439
Line Number: 223

k thankyou could you give more please I want to go there and meet them please read what I wrote to ann cardif
john

ann
hi love nice to do work wth you again what happened took me aback w hich never has happened before I was guted gerturde my g/aunt,is my g/dads sister it is a heck of a story that takenyears to find out when I was a boy/man 1960s bits/bats were said about the bakers/ summers in ledbury area which is where g/dad was b 1885 if you can look back on some of the work that has been done for me on genes you wil know its a sad story to me a a very hurtful one was g/dad father henry john summers and his father in law felix baker they were scum if I met them now I would kill them both.
Gertrude was the bastard daug of caroline baker felix,s daug born 1880 , henry john made her pregnant, caroline/henry let felix keep her[bring her up] the did marr 1884 a son was born to them 1885 henry albert my g/dad caroline d 1888 felix and his family rose up and went mental as wellas her being prehnant with gert she d of TB whichfelix blamed henry john again 70% of the summers left to go to leeds liecester,
theres a lot more shouting, fighting its been12/15 years in the making has this a hell a of a lot of work and money hirering people in usa to find gert and her family.
and then get a letter to say gert came to England 1926 to see her brother Edward at shirehampton she sill did not knoe of g/dad up in leeds until 1952ish that's why I am ba--ed off[ALOT]
gertude is the bastard daug of caroline as is Edward the son caoroline is felix,s daug b 1860 all I want to do is find out about him marr kids death I want to meet his g/kids I wont be here till fri I am working away john

FreeBMD has a possible marriage of an Edwin Baker to Mary Ann Pocknell
March Qtr 1902 Ledbury 6a 795

Possible further child
Births Sep 1912
Joyce M Baker (Pocknell mother's maiden name) Ledbury 6a 785

In 1881, 1891 and 1901 Percy Edward is listed as Edwin when living with his grandfather Felix so this could be him in 1911. Listed as married 9 years

1911
Name: Edwin Butter
[Edwin Baker]
Age in 1911: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Much Marcle, Herefordshire
Civil Parish: Preston
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street address: Old Vicarage, Nr Much Marcle, Preston, Dymock, Gloustershire
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Groom Gardener Domestic
Registration district: Newent
Registration District Number: 324
Sub-registration district: Redmarley
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 18
Piece: 15257
Household Members:
Name Age
Edwin Butter 34 Groom Gardener
Mary Ann Butter 36 b Putley, Herefordshire
Elsie Jane Butter 7 b Putley, Herefordshire
Florence Penelope Butter 3 Preston, Gloucestershire

1891

Name: Edwin Baker
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Much Marcle, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Much Marcle
Ecclesiastical parish: Much Marcle
Town: Much Marcle
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Ledbury
Sub-registration district: Yarkhill
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2053
Folio: 74
Page Number: 7
Household Members:
Name Age
Felix Baker 63
Mary J Baker 63
Thomas Baker 23
Walter Baker 20
Edwin Baker 14 Grandson
Gertrude Baker 10 Grandaughter

how did Gertrude fit into this lot?